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Super interesting discussion. I’ve read the linked article a few times, some good points were made. I don’t know what to think. Sometimes I dislike reading history. Not reading history, but then with different views on documents and writings I try to form a new opinion which is still based on partial facts.
Does it matter? Did JS bed down a 14 year old? I don’t really know. I don’t base my salvation on an organization called the church, so it really doesn’t matter.
Is mortality objective? I’m rambling now…
Quote:Did JS bed down a 14 year old? I don’t really know.
FWIW, most historians do not believe that JS consumated the relationship with the 14 yr old Helen Kimball. It is speculative if JS would have consummated the marriage eventually if he had lived (possibly after Helen had gotten older). I personally am not overly worried about the pedophile angle. Does the problem go away if all of his wives are 18? For me the most troubling aspect is that in this theology wives are possessions, items to be collected and catalogued, as a show of a man’s earthly and spiritual importance. Women become eternal status symbols – the ultimate trophy wives.P.S. The more I study the history of extremely powerful men back through the ages, the sexual access to multiple women seems the rule rather than the exception.
Roy, I am not aware of any pedophile angel involved in this issue, so I fixed the typo. 
👿 😆 :thumbup: dande48 wrote:On the other hand, the more I learn about Brigham Young the more I dislike him. Part of me is ashamed to have graduated from a school baring his name. He was a selfish, vindictive, greedy son of a gun. I’ve had much more of a problem with him, than I ever had with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith, as a whole, is a hot, fascinating mess. But he always seemed like the sort of guy I could relate to, and be best buds.
I understand Brigham Young. He was a Yankee, a hard nosed, no nonsense kind of guy. He experienced failures, but he also achieved great successes due to his drive, leadership skills and ruthlessness. He stands head and shoulders over many of the leaders of the American West (white ones!) in the scope and vision of his influence. It was he who turned our church into the powerhouse it is now.
Joseph Smith on the other hand was more of a dreamer. One who did have great success in some areas, but was very impractical in many others.
Old Timer wrote:
Roy, I am not aware of any pedophile angel involved in this issue, so I fixed the typo.👿 😆 :thumbup:
Thanks! A pedophile angel sounds like a very troubling idea indeed!😮 Mohammed married a 9 year old, as the anti-Islam brigade keep reminding us. Kinda makes 14 look old. On Own Now wrote:Marrying much-younger girls was common in those days. I have ancestors, not polygamists, where the age difference would make our heads spin today. Martin Luther was 41 when he married a 26-year-old nun. Although Romeo was old enough for sword-fighting against adults, Juliet was only 13. The legal marrying age in the State of Illinois in the early 1840’s was 10. I’m very glad that it’s not that way anymore, but every one of us is the offspring of pedophiles if we choose to apply our social mores to times past.
Polygamy was bad enough on it’s own right. My level of aghast-ness is already at the maximum and it can go no higher by adding the pedophile aspect, which is simply unfair if we apply the norms of that day.
IMO, we will never know fully the doctrine of plural marriage in the context of 1844 Nauvoo. We will never know what JS was thinking or how he viewed the future regarding this issue. In my mind it will always be a
Quote:riddle wrapped in an enigma.
As we discussed in other postings, revelations are not always revealed fully formed or defined. I believe this is one ofthem.
The one source within the church you can go to is FamilySearch.org. They have him sealed to 70+ women. One with the name (
?). Of the women sealed to him, three have children born before 1844 with the last name Smith.
I understand that after his death, Sisters could go to the temple & be sealed to him. This just makes the issue of polygamy even more
confusing to me. Then again, I can easily get confused about most topics we discuss.
Old Timer wrote:
Roy, I am not aware of any pedophile angel involved in this issue, so I fixed the typo.👿 😆 :thumbup:
Pedophile angel lol
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
Roy, I am not aware of any pedophile angel involved in this issue, so I fixed the typo.👿 😆 :thumbup:
Pedophile angel lol
Sounds like a Marilyn Manson album.
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