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These are the last two paragraphs in an op-ed piece in today’s New York Times Quote:And that was not really what I saw after my years spending time in evangelical churches. I saw that people went to church to experience joy and to learn how to have more of it. These days I find that it is more helpful to think about faith as the questions people choose to focus on, rather than the propositions observers think they must hold.
If you can sidestep the problem of belief — and the related politics, which can be so distracting — it is easier to see that the evangelical view of the world is full of joy. God is good. The world is good. Things will be good, even if they don’t seem good now. That’s what draws people to church. It is understandably hard for secular observers to sidestep the problem of belief. But it is worth appreciating that in belief is the reach for joy, and the reason many people go to church in the first place
The thing that struck me is the part where she says evangelicals went to church to experience “joy” and to learn how to have more of it. I guess that’s not been my experience either now or in the past so I’m curious what other’s feel.
That is an interesting idea. I can see how for many that is probably true, that they enjoy the act of going to church (the socializing, spiritual uplifting etc.) and then also that the teachings bring them joy. It sort of seems like that is how our church teaches things, but for me as well, it has not been my experience. I don’t know that I’ve ever enjoyed going to church. Probably some of the doctrines use to bring me something like joy, but since I don’t know if I believe them or not they don’t do that for me anymore. It makes sense though, why do it if it doesn’t bring any joy? (Self-reflecting question as well.) GBSmith wrote:Quote:…
If you can sidestep the problem of belief — and the related politics, which can be so distracting — it is easier to see that the evangelical view of the world is full of joy. God is good.The world is good. Things will be good, even if they don’t seem good now. That’s what draws people to church.It is understandably hard for secular observers to sidestep the problem of belief. But it is worth appreciating that in belief is the reach for joy, and the reason many people go to church in the first place The thing that struck me is the part where
she says evangelicals went to church to experience “joy” and to learn how to have more of it. I guess that’s not been my experience either now or in the pastso I’m curious what other’s feel. Personally I wouldn’t lump Mormons together with evangelicals. It seems like traditional Mormonism is more about a general sense of obligation based on the idea that all these doctrines are supposedly so true and right and/or fear that others will disapprove if we don’t go along with all this rather than whether or not we truly enjoy the experience. Maybe many Church members actually do enjoy the experience overall but I would say that is largely coincidental rather than one of the main factors that attracts followers and keeps them coming back to church in our case.
I know that if I go with the intent to find joy, I can find it, without even trying too hard. There are many external factors that contribute… whether the hymns are expressions of worship or merely funeral dirges has a lot to do with it… the speakers too. But I have to admit to myself, once in awhile, that it’s the internal factors that matter most. I heard a talk from a person graduating from seminary recently… He spoke of his struggles to deal with early-morning seminary, but said, “If you don’t make an honest attempt to bring the spirit into the class, it won’t be there.” That was a good reminder for me, because it is much easier for me to go just to get it over with than to look for the good. I think that the people like us who try to continue to go, even though we have lost some or all of the faith, have a unique kind of challenge. It’s way too easy to carry cynicism into the chapel. There was a young woman, I know, speaking in stake conference a couple of months ago, who said something like “I know everything the church teaches is true.” Rather than recoiling, I thought about it in the large. Of course, I don’t like that type of black & white pronouncement, but I have to look at things like that and find a little love and respect for her, a teenager, able to stand in front of 500 people and express herself so well. I didn’t have the same belief as her, but I felt joy in her expression of her faith. I could have responded in my head, “Really? So, you believe in polygamy and that blacks were rightly barred from the priesthood and temple until 1978? You believe the eskimos are part of the lost 10 tribes?” But that’s unfair, because that’s not what she meant when she said it. She’s no more responsible for the past teachings or weird teachings of the church than I am for past slavery or current racism in America, yet I’m grateful to be an American. I chose for myself to see the good in it, and it made all the difference. Before anyone thinks I’m super well-adjusted, believe me, there are plenty of times that I make little or no attempt and don’t get anything out of it… I just think that my experience has shown me that it’s more up to me than it is up to any other factor.
I think the author is right about the motivation most people feel who look for and attend a church, especially in the beginning. They want to be happy – to have joy – to make the world make sense. I think one of the best indicators of how charitable we really are is our ability to allow others to find joy in something that doesn’t bring us joy – whether that be an organization or a mindset. It’s out ability to find joy in playing the drums or the bagpipes or the kazoo or the harmonica while allowing the piccolos to play their piercing notes at full volume if that makes them happy.
Here is a post I wrote on my personal blog about finding joy and allowing others to find it in their own way:
Charity Endureth All Things: Even Others’ Different Understanding of Joy (
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010/12/charity-endureth-all-things-even-others.html When I attend other church meetings I look in the program for upcoming activities. There may be an upcoming BBQ, or camp, or game night. My ward’s program looks pretty bleak. After the meeting agenda and upcoming SS lesson schedule there is a section on missionary service including a quote from TSM urging us to go. Next is the Family History Center with the subtitle – Genealogy…are you doing it? Next are the 2013 stake goals: 1) study scriptures 2) temple service 3) daily acts of kindness. Next is a reminder from the missionaries that people need to sign up to feed them. Then there is an invitation to ward choir practice. The final part of the program is the building cleaning assignments for the month of June.
On of the people sharing their testimony yesterday testified that “Life is continuous effort to do the things we ought to be doing.” Judging from the program I can’t say that I disagree.
OTOH this same person testified at the joy that they had when all the adult children of the family gathered for the first and only time (so far) in the celestial room. But I think this is not the joy that the OP is talking about. I believe the joy the OP references is the joy of a belief system where a benevolent Father/God descends from heaven to become the whipping boy for all our errors. A joy in pondering His matchless love. It is the joy of seeing a way out of the competitive race – not of seeing how far ahead of everybody else you are.
It starts out that way — a search for Joy, but then turns into difficult, repetitive service for some of us. I have had to look outside the church to find joy, and have found more “peak experiences” I consider very satisfying, that help me stretch, and that develop me — outside of the church. YOu can find joy, without the church. You can find joy within it too — but I found that after 3 decades of service it got harder and harder to find it.
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