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I visited my ward, today. The last time I went, about a month ago, I wore a sort of armor. I would not allow anything to bother me. Today, I wanted to attend unarmed. I prepared myself to be open and to allow myself to feel while I was there. Throughout the day, as I was either at church or later when the Home Teachers came to visit, I felt anger, hurt and frustration. I am exhausted.
I’m sorry, man. My next trip to church will probably be in two weeks, as that’s the next time there won’t be any NCAA games. I know how you feel. When you show up cynical, you don’t get mad but you don’t get anything else. When you show up ready to be influenced, it seems like there’s nothing good that’s said. I’m sorry, trill. I would offer to find you a job in my area, since my ward is awesome, but . . . I feel for you. The local church IS “The Church” in so many ways, and it’s hard when it’s not “home”.
What were the specific things that made you feel angery and hurt? What exhausted you? I’m not questioning at all your response. That is very real. It might help to focus on what was bringing up this reaction. Pain response tells us where the damage and injury is located. That might work spiritually too.
Valoel- I think the “pain” came from how it seems every time I’ve attended with an open heart, instead of feeling uplifted, I feel pulled down. I think that was honestly the most difficult aspect of the day. Otherwise: -The focus on sacrament meeting was largely on the “natural man.” The idea that we are all horrible sinners that need God is prevalent in other denominations, and it is not one that at this time in my life I find particularly uplifting.
-The HC essentially used a lot of scare tactics (live the gospel and go to the celestial kingdom, choose otherwise and live unhappily in the eternities.)
-HC quoted from
Mormon Doctrine. Honestly, a little thing, but it’s what broke open the floodgates. Before that I’d been a little on edge perhaps, but that’s when my internal dialogue really started to open up. -Honestly, Idon’t remember much of what the HC had to say. At the time, when I tried to reflect on why I was upset, the only things I could come up with was that I felt manipulated and that I simply did not believe the things he was teaching, nor the way he was teaching it.
-In GD, the relationship between Jospeh and Emma was held up as an ideal to aspire to.
-A woman shared a personal comment about her mother. Her mother had been a great example by staying in an abusive relationship because “it was her only chance at an eternal family.”
-Discussion on how dangerous it is to think that we are different or an exception. I agree. However, is it not also dangerous to think that we are all the same and all have the same spiritual needs? Typically, in my experience, the latter is how all things are taught.
-As a HT discussed his wedding plans, I was reminded of how the church seems to place greater stresses on interfaith families, rather than drawing them closer together. I feel that membership in the church should draw you closer to your family members no matter their faith. However, that does not seem to be the case.
(In particular, this man was talking about how the desire to have your family members join the church can be “all consuming.” He converted as a teenager, served a mission and will be married in a few months. They will be accompanied in the temple by only his best friend’s family, her parents and her grandparents. They don’t want the ring ceremony to oveshadow the ordinances or seem like a “second wedding.” So, their ring ceremony will consist of the bishop giving a talk on testimonies, the newlyweds each sharing their testimony, and then simply exchanging the rings.)
But, mostly, it just hurts that it feels unsafe to approach church attendance “with an open heart.”
I feel like I should post an addendum here. I didn’t want to just post a laundry list of “things I didn’t like at church yesterday.” That’s why I kept the OP so short. I figure that I know how to, intellectually, respond to each of those frustrating points. So, in an attempt to steer the conversation a bit: ***Have you ever experienced a period of time when you felt you could not attend church “with an open heart?” How long did this last? Did you identify the reasons why? What helped? What hurt?
***How do you deal with teachings that are central to the gospel, yet you find to be damaging? Perhaps I should move this to my previous thread (and if asked to, I will.) But, for example, I feel that the teaching of eternal families is dangerous insofar that it encourages divisions within interfaith families and encourages women (or men) to stay in abusive relationships. Is this just a matter of comparative advantage, where the advantages of teaching about eternal families outweigh the negatives? Are there other teachings that you find damaging? How have you negotiated those?
Honestly, I think that my feelings spring up from just not being used to all of this yet. I’m not used, yet, to hearing Joseph being deified or hearing manipulation in the words of leaders or experiencing frustration at the “role” of eternal families. So, those things still strike at me. On the other hand, while I am frustrated that a BYU professor’s blog got shut down because my friend and the Prof’s TA were blogging about Heavenly Mother, I’ve gotten used to that. Yes, it upsets me, but it doesn’t hit so deeply. I’ve come to expect the university to do things that I disagree with or even think are hurtful. I still think it’s a good university overall. Maybe I just need time to come to a place like that with the church. Although, on the other hand, do I really want to desensitize myself to these things?
trill wrote:Maybe I just need time to come to a place like that with the church. Although, on the other hand, do I really want to desensitize myself to these things?
Wow. What a tough question. I love the reverent and earnest tone of the forums these past few days. These are grave matters that deserve full respect.
trill wrote:Have you ever experienced a period of time when you felt you could not attend church “with an open heart?
Of course! That’s why I can be here with you. We are all in the same trenches. Some of us have made some beautiful discoveries, and some of us have had more time to learn about this new way, but we are all right there with you. My worst period was when I had to keep my mouth closed at church for fear of saying the wrong thing. That lasted about a year.
I believe the key to the whole journey is seeking to replace ANGER with LOVE. To the degree any of us have succeeded or are succeeding, it is because we were able to turn away from anger toward love. that’s the religion. That’s the truth. That’s the new way. That’s the blessing.
The specifics aren’t problems that need to be answered so much like “well, I know you felt that, but the Church is correct and you are wrong. Here is why…” I had this sense to ask the question “why?” because I had a sense that you might see something, for yourself, that is tied to the anger you feel in reaction to specific things. I don’t know the answer for you.
I meant in the spirit of “what does that cloud in the sky look like?” One person says a bunny rabbit, another person says a tiger. You went to church and saw some things that made you upset. Some examples are (trying to paraphrase some of your comments):
1. The idea of eternal families is dangerous because it makes people stay in abusive relationships. That is upsetting.
2. The people at church are trying to manipulate and trick you. That is upsetting.
3. The church makes it difficult for interfaith families. That upsets you.
4. We are all horrible sinners (You are a horrible sinner, that makes it more personal).
5. Quotation from Bruce R. McKonkie’s “Mormon Doctrine” makes you upset.
Those are all more or less true. But the deeper message is this, why does it upset you? Think about what you focused on, what was going on in your heart and mind, and why those words upset you. Other people might hear about eternal families, for instance, and not jump immediately to thinking about abuse. Other people might hear those words and not feel manipulated. You know some of the things said are not true. But still … it made you feel bad.
It’s hard to convey tone in writing. Please read what I am asking and probing with a tone of acceptance, and no judgment. I am not trying to convince you that your experience was not real. I pushing at the why … why you experienced it the way you did. Our reactions to things tell us a lot. The things that make us happy and sad (or angry) tell us things — a personal message for us.
Some things make me angry sometimes. It sucks, but it is good to stare into those things and look really hard.
Tom- Thank you for sharing your thoughts. A year is a long time to keep quiet. I have only been on this path for a year and some months now. I agree that the end I am searching for is to freely love and serve. I am not quite sure how I will get there. I suppose we’ll see. Thank you for reading the respect in my question. I feel there is respect entailed there for the church, it’s members, and myself, amongst others.
Valoel-
Thank you for your careful consideration. I read your comments as gently probing, not condescending. I am going to see what I can do with those thoughts.
Gabe- Thanks for commiserating. It means a lot just to know that others identify. Let us know how it goes next week.
Ray- I hear Ohio is a great place to live. I had a coworker once, while I was working in New Hampshire, who was from Ohio. She mostly raved about the countryside, bluegrass music and disc golf. How could such a blessed place
nothost excellent wards? 
Valoel, I think what you are getting at is very cool. In other words, you are suggesting we try to be of the introspective, believing, and positive spirit that takes every pain as a potential opportunity for discovery, healing, and growth. That’s giant.
Just as dreams are really valuable because of what they reveal about ourselves, pain in attending church can be valuable for the same reason. I am going to be blessed because of that idea. Thanks.
I will share an example from my own soul. It irritates me when I hear someone talk about having faith and keeping the commandments, and through that everything will always turn out ok. And when they are saying that, they mean nothing bad will happen to you. Some person, or divine intervention, comes at the last minutes and all your problems are solved for you. Articles like that in the Ensign rub me the wrong way. When I hear that in talks, it irritates me. I am pretty good at controlling myself, but it takes effort still these days. Here’s the kicker: I think they are correct, even though I think that most people who say those things have no clue what they mean.
God will let us fail. He will let us be sick and die. He will let righteous people suffer and wicked people prosper (in the world). Bad things happen to good people all the time. Bad people get awesome “stuff.” Checking off all the boxes on the list is no guarantee of any worldly protection. If I don’t get awesome stuff, I must not be faithful right?
Having faith and enlightenement, that is the power to see that everything does in fact turn out ok (in the eternal perspective). When our will approaches oneness with God’s will, everything is exactly as it should be. That is the funny part. I actually agree with the premise, just not that same way.
Why does it make me mad when people say this stuff?
My personal PRIDE and JEALOUSYIt sucks to realize that… 😡 My parents taught me the incorrect view over and over growing up. I followed in their footsteps. I even went into the same exact profession as my father. I got married young and had a big family immediately. It worked for them. It should work for me. If only I had enough faith and was worthy like them … then I would have had great worldly success like my parents, right? God should have taken care of making it easy for me. I was doing all this for Him, according to what I had been taught in His Church. Where were the angels swooping in at the last minute to fix things? Where is the fat paycheck, the big house in the new neighborhood, and the brand new cars every couple years? Where’s my awesome stuff? (Jealousy) I should be successful to prove how righteous I am (Pride). We’ve lost a lot of worldly things in the past and had to make tough decisions at times (like me joining the Army at one point early in our marriage). We lost everything at one point in the past, almost every worldly thing we owned. I must be pretty stupid and faithless (pride. pride. pride). Otherwise, God would have saved me from all that (anger).
Everything is ok though. I am getting the
EXACT, perfect experience that I need. My pain is perfectly matched to my need to look in that place and see what I need to see in myself. The “stuff” and the comfort don’t really matter. I have a roof over my head today. I eat more food than I need. My family is healthy. I *AM* good enough, and my life really is great. I can choose to appreciate and have thanks for what I have. My life is pretty good. I can choose to be filled with anger about it (like I was in the past), or I can choose to be happy and see something divine. My pain is perfectly matched to my needs. Those stupid people who say those things have no clue what they are talking about (pride and anger)! I know x10 more about it than them, they hardly try to figure it out (pride). But that’s ok. Even though I am right, my pain points right back into my own soul. It shows me exactly where I have the power to fix the situation.
That was incredibly well said, valoel. Thanks. Thank you, Valoel, for being willing to share such personal examples. I will be turning the thoughts you’ve shared over in my head and heart for the next few weeks. We’ll see what turns up.
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