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…But I still have my humor. Figured that was a nice contrast to another post. Anyways, I just need to vent some of my feelings. My wife and I really are having a hard time right now. Here’s some quotes from a recent argument/discussion that help illustrate how she’s feeling.
“You can throw away everything you hold dear so you can feel good about yourself.”
“you are falling for things that are not true. you choose to believe things that are false over staying and being happy with me”
“My whole life I dreamed and prayed about and for my future husband. I wanted my fairytale…and now I feel like I’m in the middle of a nightmare.”
“I feel like you have crushed me. I’m so disappointed….I am miserable while all you care about is yourself.”
So you can see, I’ve hurt her dearly. Rather then deal with it she tries to ignore my faith transition. Which works fine until something reminds her of it and we have to have “the discussion” yet again. In this case I told her I was going to ask to be released from my calling. I have young children and feel that it strains my family life right now. Ironically she knows this as she dreads the time I spend away more than I do. She’s often wished I didn’t have it. Moreover she recently asked to be released from hers. So I was hoping it would not cause the problem it did. Sadly it wouldn’t have if I was still TBM but because I’m not, she sees it as one more step to total apostasy.
This is getting worse and worse as she admitted to me that she is blocking me off emotionally. She confessed to not feeling as great love for me anymore. I don’t know what to do. Following the advice of many of you I try not to bring up controversial topics and in no way try to push my beliefs on her. All I ask from her is to do the same (not force me to close my eyes and pretend to be TBM). Regardless she tells me that I’ve been deceived by Satan and am destroying our eternal family. She wants me to just forget about the “problems” but I can’t do that. I tried! She said she wants to meet with our bishop which I think is a horrible idea. All we need is some untrained, very opinionated and biased third party interfering. I did suggest she join an online community such as faceseast but she didn’t seem interested. I sent here a dozen quotes and scriptures (mostly found on here) about not leaving your spouse for different faith, being able to be seekers after truth and be Mormon in different ways, etc. Even thought they’re from GA, and scriptures she dismisses them. She can’t see past me being and apostate despite me being a “good” man and even Mormon in every way but belief.
I know it’s my fault for dumping this on her almost a year ago and I know I’m not living up to her expectations, which are high even for a TBM. But what can be done? Should I be supportive of her talking to the Bishop? I just feel like it will bias his perspective of me before I’m even done working out all my beliefs. I fear it may cause her more distress as I could see him as a bishop who would do something drastic, like take away my TR…. Anyways, I’m mostly just thinking with my fingers. I apologize for the incoherent mess.
eman, I’m sorry that you and your wife are going through this. I sincerely hope for the best for you.
I’ll offer a couple of thoughts, but caveat heavily that each person and each family is different. I don’t know you or your wife, and other than a few words on this thread, I have little to go on, except for my own experiences.
I think you might find it helpful to get the church out of the discussion. If this argument is about what you believe and what she believes, you will never come to a good resolution. If it is, instead, about the two of you, your family and your future, then you have a better chance.
As for her wanting to talk to the bishop, there’s nothing wrong with her desire… it’s similar to your coming here to talk. I would suggest that YOU talk to the bishop and set the tone with him… then she can talk to him all she wants, and my guess (depends on many factors… but my guess) is that he will offer support along the lines of sticking with you and working it out, rather than to leave you because you are an apostate. The key, in my mind, is to talk to him without anger, weeping, frustration, or any other emotion. Just let him know that you no longer believe, or no longer believe everything, but that you see much good in the church, and want your family to stay in it, and that you are trying to stay connected to it, and pull the good that you can out of it (I’m assuming, here, because that’s the normal stance of most people here). Tell him that you want more than anything else, to preserve your marriage and family, and are trying to figure out how to make that work, in spite of your faith. If you tell him that and that you appreciate his concern, and that you are still trying to be a good person, etc, I doubt he will disfellowship you. You might face the loss of your TR, based on the “do you believe…” questions… but you can counter that you do believe it in some ways, or that you hope to be able to continue to attend the temple, because you find enlightenment there, etc. In my case, I had a couple of bishops that let me continue to perform Aaronic Priesthood ordinances, but another bishop that decided that was over the line. However, I think it’s worth the risk… heck… talk to your wife that YOU want to talk to the bishop about it, and that you worry that he might take away privileges… and that could help her to come into your corner a bit.
I think the main thing that has helped me maintain positive relationships with various members of my family or with friends, is that I never get into justification for why I’m no longer a believer, and I never ask for their justification for why the still are. It’s both simple and complex enough to say that I am no longer a believer, and then to reassure that I support them completely in their continued involvement. It’s important not to turn this into an ultimatum… It’s me or the church… or … do you love me or the church more…
You probably want to hear from your wife that she loves you more than the church, and that while she wishes you were still all-in, that she is going to stick with you no matter what. If that’s what you’d like to hear from her, then think of what she might like to hear from you… perhaps that you love her more than not being all-in with the church, and that you want to stick with her, no matter what trials may come because of this, etc, etc.
Finally, I usually tell people in this kind of situation that it is crucially important for you to recognize and keep in mind that between the two of you, it is you who have changed, not her. What that means is that it’s up to you to shoulder the burden of your change, and to do whatever is necessary to set her at ease about you.
To be very blunt: Which is more important to you: 1) Your wife’s happiness; 2) Saying whatever you want to say and not attending church whenever you feel like it?
Quote:“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend.”
If your answer is your wife, you have a place to vent and question here; don’t vent and question at home. Prove your answer is sincere. “Lay down your life” in that regard for her.
That’s been my life in many ways for the last 30 years, since I met my wife. I have shared things with her bit-by-bit over the years, only in small doses when I was confident she was able to understand.
Thanks On Own Now, I will take your advice concerning the Bishop if it comes down to her making that choice. I hope it doesn’t as I do want to participate and hold callings again someday and I’d prefer not wait another 3 years for him to be released. I’m not sure I really ever want my unorthodoxy known widely.
As for getting the church out of the discussion…I would love to. If it were up to me I would. Even though she agrees we should not debate beliefs she still brings it up. I will try not to justify my reasons so much though and just leave it as I don’t believe (by this I mean showing that my questioning or truth seeking is in line with what we have been taught and that it is not sin to do so AND that I still have “Faith” and try to follow God’s will for me.) . Maybe that will help. I think the argument was really about her taking out her pent up frustrations on me because of my lack of belief. Me asking to be released just gave her something to focus on.
Ray,
Obviously my wife’s happiness. I don’t say what I want to or otherwise question and vent with my wife. I don’t share any of the details of what caused my faith to tremble (okay, crash and burn. I did however share a few in a very general sense when I first confessed my crisis a year ago). As of now, asking to be released was the first thing I have done to outwardly show any change in belief. Doing so was because of both time commitment and me not feeling comfortable with the teaching aspect involved and I just feel that the youth deserve better for now. I believe that in a year or so I will be comfortable teaching but I just don’t feel so now. I would accept any other non-teaching calling. I stayLDS not just for my wife but for me too. I don’t have any intention of leaving and just wish I could convey my sincerity about this to her.
Can you tell her you are sorry for hurting her, you are trying to stay connected to her, and that this hurts you too? Can you reassure her that your love for her is constant, and you believe in her and are committed to her, regardless of how you feel about the church? Can you find the Ensign article from July, “When he stopped believing” and share it? Can you share 1 Corinth 7:12-16? I’m sorry this is so hard. I wish I could make it better. Honestly, I was like your wife when my dh lost his faith, and THE reason we made it through is because I prayed and the spirit brought peace. Then I could see things like this and be comforted. Before that, no amount of discussion or quotes or scriptures could fix it. Maybe you could offer to pray together for understanding and peace and unity. It would be using her spiritual “language ,” show that you are trying, and just maybe it might help.
I’m sorry, all around. Sending support and love to you both.
Hi Eman, Really sorry to hear you’re having a tough time of it. There may come a time when your wife feels the need to decide whether she wants to be married to “eman” or an active, TR holding, ‘true blue’ p’hood holder. It may seem unfair that this is even considered as an option by her. But as On Own Now said, she thought that’s what she had ‘got’ when you married and now she has something else.
I know that sounds harsh. I know my wife found it quite offensive when I tried to tell her as much during her transition out of the church. In the end I had to decide whether I wanted a life with her or an active Mormon. I knew I didn’t want a divorce and even more I knew I wanted her in my life, so I chose the former. Reality is, some choose otherwise.
I’d hesitate to agree with Ray. I’m glad DW isn’t at church and faking it. But it’s not an easy call either way. Do you fake it for a peaceful life or be honest and face the hostility? Not an easy decision and it will be a different ‘right answer’ for every individual and every couple. Really sorry it’s like this for you though. Best wishes with your steps forward.
Thanks Mackay and others, We may have made a good step forward yesterday. She was telling my how dealing with my faith transition felt very similar to grieving over our lost child. It hurts to know I am the source of such pain. But I was able to finally get through to her, make her believe me when I say I am not leaving the church which is her biggest fear (That and that I might say something on Sunday to embarrass her). I really emphasized how the main change in me was minor; my definition of know has changed from a sure knowledge that things are true to a hope that it is true. I pointed out that this is the true meaning of faith anyways. There was some more to it but this was the focus. Later that night she told me she felt better about it, that my words had brought her some comfort. Hopefully she continues to feel better about it, but only time will tell. I know it’s selfish to think so, but I envy those of you how have spouses in this journey with you. I think I’ve
almostcome to terms with the fact that she may never go through a faith crisis and I will likely be on this journey alone. Here’s hoping my heart will change completely that my secret selfish desire will fade away. :thumbup: eman, that’s good news. You’re making progress. It sounds like you’re feeling better too. Keep us informed.
eman wrote:She was telling my how dealing with my faith transition felt very similar to grieving over our lost child.
I agree that there are many similarities. This may also help you to be patient with your wife. Remember that grieving takes time, but the final stage that most of us reach is acceptance. In some ways this type of grieving can be worse becuase of the the hope that you might change back to a more literal testimony might prolong the process. I know it is hard, you are not alone in this situation.
Hey eman, sorry I’m slow to respond here. I have traveled a very similar path as the one you’re on. I know the depth of difficulty. I did go talk to my bishop when requested. I tried to be as positive as possible while still remaining honest. I said “I don’t know” or “I can’t be sure” to a lot of the belief questions. I also shared a hope that I could learn to find more value in traditional doctrinal points – but that I currently had difficulty seeing many things literally. To my surprise my bishop told me I had done nothing wrong, that it was right to seek and question, and that while some things are difficult to understand he hoped I would continue to give as much ‘benefit of the doubt’ as I could and choose to plant a seed of faith. Overall it was a productive meeting, and something of a turning point for me. I felt like I was given more “elbow room” and was welcome at church with the beliefs that I could honestly bring.
I would also suggest that you go out of your way to demonstrate to your wife that you are committed to her and will do anything in the world for her. For me it helped when I shared with my wife some parts of the BoM that resonated with me. I said things like “I don’t understand many things but I am focused on developing charity; Moroni 7 says: ‘and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him’ …if I can do anything at all in my life I will learn to possess charity.” It also helped a great deal when she saw that I had no desire to alter my lifestyle in any way. After a very brief time in the beginning I never made negative comments about the church. Things were okay, then later when I felt I could ask for another temple recommend I just came home with one. I don’t know if she was expecting it at all but her response made me feel almost like I had come home from war.
Hang in there!
:thumbup: I’m in the same situation with my husband and have heard the same things from him, that I’m ruining everything and being deceived, etc. I know I am not being deceived, but of course, he has no way of getting into my head and knowing what I know. I will spare telling you our whole story, but I will tell you the one most important thing that I have learned from going through this. Trust in love. Trust that your wife’s love for you is strong enough to see you through this. Trust that your love for her is strong enough to be felt through this. Trust in the Lord’s love for both of you to fix all that is wrong.
The harsh truth is that if your wife is allowing the church to affect her love for you, then she has placed too much emphasis on the church. How many times are we told that the church’s role is to support the family? The church should never come between families, but since we are imperfect mortals, it does. And so your wife may have been deceived into thinking that the church is more important to your marriage, or central to your marriage, and is confused with that. However, there is no reason to give up hope. Though she might be confused, I would bet she loves just as much as ever and is simply confused by the things she’s been taught.
At this point, my husband and I are still struggling in our relationship, but something beautiful has taken place. We have discovered through all that we have been through because of this ordeal, which includes a separation from each other, that we are absolutely crazy about each other and want nothing more than to be together. It didn’t seem like that at first because of some of the hurtful things he did as I expressed my feelings to him, but there is no doubt in my mind now that he loves me dearly and would give up everything for me.
I believe that if you trust in love and go forward, basing your decisions on love, then in the end, your marriage will be everything it can be.
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