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eman wrote:
Oh…sorry Ray. I forgot to mention that of course I agreed with you. Sorry for the rant. I realize that sometimes in writing it’s so hard to convey real feelings which is hard as I’m naturally a very light spoken person (read: sarcastic). I do accept responsibility (Though secretly I blame God for not coming down and talking with us. He could just straighten the whole thing out for us… ). I do forget though that it took me many moons to come to peace with my decision. That’s why I need people like you to set me straight. Thanks!
No problem Eman – Just yesterday DW returned home from tithing settlement and that set off a conversation where she said things like “I’m in no position to judge you” and “we all have our faults.” I tried to point out that while I know that she is trying to be non-judgmental she is still doing it passively. She may not be in a position to judge me but neither apparently is she in a position to be proud of me as her husband and father to her children. We do indeed all have our faults but I tend to think that my general perspective on life (something that I believe contributes to my being a normal, well adjusted person) is not a fault.
My point in sharing this is 2 fold: 1st that it just feels good and 2nd is that I am still very much in the trenches. We can support each other enough to carry on for another mile or two. I have confidence that if we persist in patience and love, it will get better (granted that “it getting better” might never involve converting a spouse to your viewpoint, perhaps just a greater level of tolerance and acceptance for divergent viewpoints.)
eman, it’s hard to notice this sometimes, but there is a “Ray” and a “Roy” who participate here. 
I like Roy and his perspective, so I don’t mind being confused with him – and it happens enough with enough different people that I’m used to it.
Roy wrote:No problem Eman – Just yesterday DW returned home from tithing settlement and that set off a conversation where she said things like “I’m in no position to judge you” and “we all have our faults.” I tried to point out that while I know that she is trying to be non-judgmental she is still doing it passively. She may not be in a position to judge me but neither apparently is she in a position to be proud of me as her husband and father to her children. We do indeed all have our faults but I tend to think that my general perspective on life (something that I believe contributes to my being a normal, well adjusted person) is not a fault.
My point in sharing this is 2 fold: 1st that it just feels good and 2nd is that I am still very much in the trenches. We can support each other enough to carry on for another mile or two. I have confidence that if we persist in patience and love, it will get better (granted that “it getting better” might never involve converting a spouse to your viewpoint, perhaps just a greater level of tolerance and acceptance for divergent viewpoints.)
Oops..so that’s confusing…I actually was replying to Old-Timer and didn’t just type your name wong Roy. I just hit “Quote” on the wrong thread. My bad. Of course I agreed with you as well.
Hi all, I’m going to write a longer post about this later, but I wanted to quickly share my perspective as the one who was once the scared TBM spouse.
My wife was the first of us to have a shift in LDS perspective while I was a very straight-laced TBM.
It was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. It almost tore us apart. However much she would say she was still the same person, I couldn’t see it that way. I felt hurt and very scared about our future. I took every small change in behaviour and magnified it. I presumed that within a few months our entire life would be in pieces. The foundation for our family seemed broken.
Over time we learned that 100% respect and love for the individual was what mattered most. I’m fortunate that I have always loved my wife for her as a person, not her as a mormon. But it was very, very scary. You really need to cut your TBM spouses a lot of slack. You are the one who has changed and the marriage/family they had planned is being reshaped against their will.
I’ll talk later about how I, as the TBM spouse, also had to adapt, change and contribute, but that’s another topic.
In case you’re wondering, I had my own faith crisis a lot later which was in no way connected to anything my wife ever said or did. I have massive respect for her that she never forced anything on me. I love her all the more for that. My research was entirely of my own interest. The risk of imposing views/interpretations on another is it can build resentment and make it worse. I love my wife for respecting me enough to not try to ‘turn me away.’ Equally I didn’t try to ‘turn her back.’ Mutual respect is the key.
Thanks for this thread and for everyone sharing their perspective. My wife is a TBM and I have been wondering how much to tell her. I appreciate mackays post especially the part about trying not to turn each other away/back. I feel sort of dishonest by not coming clean but also feel like I would be trying to turn her away by sharing. To the TBM, questioning is often equated to apostasy. It is not true but this belief is perpetuated….and because of this I just envisioned this leading to my trying to explain to her what I was feeling, what I had read, etc, etc….therefore trying to convert her to my path. Quite a quandry…
Your stories help me to realize gentle is better. I will just continue to share my specific beliefs framed in a way which generally aligns with modern GA’s. I use Uchtdorf a lot as he asctually supports us in many of his talks. I think the words “I have doubts about the church” would shake my family to the core….but saying “I am going to follow the gospel of love, acceptance, inclusion rather than exclusion and I am going to ignore input about things that don’t matter (like my beard or the color of my shirt)” seem to go over quite well. I think over time she will see this change for what it is, healthy and liberating….and hopefully then we can talk about mormon sex hangups and our joy can really increase!
:thumbup: johnh wrote:then we can talk about mormon sex hangups and our joy can really increase!
:thumbup: LOL! Of course, you don’t have to wait…There’s plenty of material out there that is still acceptable for TBM. A very good one that I highly recommend is “And they were not ashamed” by Laura Brotherson available at
deseretbook.comSo it’ happened again… There I was, reading an article about tithing😈 I fill this with lots of humor but in reality it does make me reflect on the problem with using our feelings as a means for determining truth. I’ve felt much the same when reading the wheel of time (But when I tried to use the one power it just didn’t work!) and other good books. I used to stress over not knowing if the spirit was speaking to me or my emotions. Eventually I decided it hardly mattered. If it seemed good, and I was trying to do good by God, surely it was good. And if it wasn’t, He’d let me know. This was back in my TBM days. It has certainly helped since my transition. Before ,I’d pray for confirmation of a decision and make up receiving an answer (since one would never come). Nowadays I set aside all pretense that I’ll receive an answer. I simply pray for
guidanceand then work things out and pray that God will make known unto me any error in my decision. I find this still satisfies questions such as “did you pray about it?” as well as giving me more weight when I can honestly say “I’ve prayed about it and this is what I feel I should do.” I feel it’s better understood by TBM than just “I studied and researched and the evidence let me to believe.” Also I feel more justified than not praying at all. That way God knows I was at least seeking His will on the matter.
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