Just had a huge argument with my mom…

[Anonymous]

Reuben wrote:

Some bits and bobs, in case they help. At least, they might help you, even if they don’t help your mom understand or accept your beliefs.

Alma 32, the go-to LDS text on faith, talks 10x more about goodness than about truth – not exaggerating.

StayLDS temple recommend question surveys and discussions: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6117 – turns out most of us can pass; discussions indicate how and why. I’d recommend these to anyone, but they’re especially useful for people with nontraditional faith. I’m an agnostic deist (and so is DarkJedi IIRC), and I keep a current temple recommend. My bishop knows exactly where I stand, but I would have been able to give the correct answers honestly without telling him anyway, in large part because of that discussion.

There are many levels of activity between full, calling-magnifying activity, and stepping away. A short break is fine and can help you get your bearings. (There’s a recent conference talk that mentions something similar, but I can’t remember which it is.) A lot of people end up at a more in-between level to keep their relationships healthy.

I will def take some time to go through the thread. Thanks for sharing Reuben!

Yea I am trying to figure out what the best “mix” is for me in terms of spirituality. I really want to take a hard look at my situation and see how mormonism fits into what is important to me. It may mean mormonism doesn’t fit into anything .. and nothing is really holding me back from leaving the religion all together (like no hubby or kids involved etc) but i want to take time dissecting the issues and making decisions at a slow pace… heck I could be agnostic for all i know .. but I need to figure me out carefully lol

[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

You might want to email her President Uchtdorf’s talk from conference where he said “fear isn’t the way to change others, love is” and say that you absolutely felt like she was trying to “scare” you into the gospel and that only drives people away.

I didn’t even think of that – you make a great point

I will definitely email her that talk thanks for the suggestion

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

LookingHard wrote:

You might want to email her President Uchtdorf’s talk from conference where he said “fear isn’t the way to change others, love is” and say that you absolutely felt like she was trying to “scare” you into the gospel and that only drives people away.

LH beat me to it. I think this is at least part of the issue – she has been instilled with fear and because of that feels the need to instill that same fear on others because of the fear. Fear really is vicious.

Fear truly is very vicious

but I don’t need her to pass her fear onto me lol

[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

They have been taught to fear leaving the church as it is one of the very worst things that could happen to someone.

BINGO

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

OUCH to the things in bold…OUCH!!! But that’s what we are up against in the church. This is tough — how it divides families when one person doesn’t appear to “tow the line”. I empathize with how you are feeling.

Quote:

Honestly – I called her out and said ” I find it really funny that you just spent almost an hour attacking my faith, my mind, and my character and yet you never asked “hey what’s going on, I am sorry you are feeling that way” or whatever…

I had to accept that I wouldn’t be as close to my family as I would have liked when I joined the church. it’s a bit different because they are non-members (Evangelicals), but it did cause an ache in my heart. But after a while, I formed new relationships and have managed to cope pretty well. There are times when I feel ostracized, but that is the price you pay for living your feelings and being yourself.

Give it a bit of time; if you live apart, don’t initiate contact with her right now. Hope that good Christian values overtake the severe judgmentalism (called Moat-Beam sickness) that has overtaken your mother. She is not well in that respect.

I have learned that on matters of personal choice, it’s SO MUCH BETTER to give people in your current state of belief, space. You are far more likely to get what you want in the end rather than lashing out or trying to force them — forcing or unkind words, or negative forms of motivation attempts, only entrench the behavior you DON’T WANT in the person. You Mom doesn’t get this. Give her space, minimize interaction for a while, and work on forging other positive relationships and experiences to fill the void.

I hope you let us know how it goes…

I know – it was not easy to listen to

Yea I will let time heal the wounds – I have already distanced myself from my mother for many years but i think this was an eye opening experience for me in that maybe the distance needs to be increased a little more …

Thanks for all the great advice. I will do my best and hopefully it all works out. I will post an update at some point

[Anonymous]

DoubtingTom wrote:

So sorry you had to go through that discussion. I want to reiterate what has been said that her gut reaction is certainly built on fear and also out of love for you. I have come to find that those with a true believing fundamentalist mindset have a really hard time even comprehending how someone could simply have honest and rational doubts without it being tied to some sin or shortfall. I believe that idea is slowly being changed within, but there is still a strong stigma. I don’t have any good advice to offer other than be patient and loving. Once she realizes that this is not born out of a desire to be rebellious, but simply you are having honest and rational doubts, hopefully her tone will change. Good luck!

Thank you! I am really not trying to be some crazy lunatic committing sin left and right! lol I wish she understood that better but alas.

I appreciate the support and kind words. I will do my best to be patient and kind with her

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Sometimes people feel that the church is the only thing keeping us from being adulterous back-biting drug addicts.

Especially if she felt that she “lost” your sister she may fear the same for you. My advice is to wait… and then when the discussion does come up again to calmly and gently repeat something to this effect. “Mom, I am still the same person I was yesterday.” “Mom, you raised me to have a good head and a strong heart.” “I love the way you raised me. I will honor and respect that no matter what.” “It is completely normal for young people to need to claim their own path. I am not rejecting you, I am just trying to make my own way.”

I would probably stay far-far away from actual specific doubts or church issues. It does not seem that a productive discussion can be had on that subject now – maybe ever.

Thanks Roy!

Yea I refuse to engage with her about specific topics. I have always avoided it but learned my lesson the hard way this time around

I will use those phrases you recommended the next time I speak with her in person … probably a month or two from now… don’t really feel like seeing her and having that conversation yet.. i need my space

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

You have received some very good advice and support already, and I agree with the comments above.

This is how religion can help us. The discussion topics…Joseph Smith, or the temple, or garments, or visiting teaching…they are just stuff. The topics may be different than other religions, but human nature is the same, and families of other religions also have to learn to deal with these things. I also don’t think a loving mormon family has to treat each other this way, and not all do. The fears may be there…but how we treat each other through the fears is a choice. Trying to understand the source of how others treat us is a choice and a good lesson.

My point…this is not a mormon thing. This is about dealing with people who are filled with fear and who project their issues on to us.

I think that is important to separate out. Why? Because you need to work through your faith issues and how you feel you need a mini break from church and what role church is going to play in your life…and your mom’s issues will complicate things if wrapped into your journey.

You might find it helpful to separate them out, and deal with your own faith and give yourself permission to doubt, to question, to study, and to find some things you don’t like or don’t believe. You are allowed to do that.

Secondly…how will you handle your mom as you work through your faith journey? Family influence, and acceptance, and approval…is a strong pull for us in this world. It is not easy to just ignore the things she is saying, and how she is feeling. It is not easy to not respond and not answer the questions and defend yourself. To some degree, you may have to.

But there may be important life lessons along the way as you do so.

One story you may find helpful as you ground yourself in how you currently believe, disbelieve, or currently doubt and question things…all of which are perfectly fine and healthy and adult to do so…this story from the Buddha may influence your thinking:

Quote:

Buddha was well known for his ability to respond to evil with good. There was a man who knew about his reputation and he traveled miles and miles and miles to test Buddha. When he arrived and stood before Buddha, he verbally abused him constantly, he insulted him, he challenged him, he did everything he could to offend Buddha. Buddha was unmoved, he simply turned to the man and said, “May I ask you a question?” The man responded with “Well, what?” Buddha said, “If someone offers you a gift and you decline to accept it to whom then does it belong?” The man said, “Then it belongs to the person who offered it” Buddha smiled, “That is correct. So if I decline to accept your abuse does it not then still belong to you?” The man was speechless and walked away.

Your mom might as well be yelling at you about how your hair is green. Doesn’t matter how upset she is, or how loud she goes on and on about it…frankly…it’s kind of stupid, because it isn’t true. Spending time trying to convince her how wrong she is may not even be worth your time. If you know she is talking non-sense…keep yourself above that non-sense. Stay unmoved.

Show her love. Find ways to compliment her as your mother. Serve her. Her hurtful words come from a place of unmet needs in her past, somewhere (probably outside mormonism as well). Try to empathize her pain she is projecting.

That is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

In addition…start looking for ways to protect yourself and setup boundaries from her if she can’t help herself and stop. If she becomes a spiritual vampire in your life…you may need to create space to protect yourself from her.

My thoughts exactly! Thanks for sharing the story – I will stay unmoved. I refuse to let this get to me anymore than it has

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

LookingHard wrote:

And DJ added in something I wanted to say. She is trying to fear you (scare you) into staying with the plan. But I have become very convinced that most of the underlying driving emotion for this is the fear that they member has. They have been taught to fear leaving the church as it is one of the very worst things that could happen to someone.

Which in a round about way is her way of showing you that she loves you. Hear me out.

When I joined the church some family members made some of those statements your mom made. The persecution only served to strengthen my resolve to join… ah, to be young again. But when I later reflected on things that were said I realized that they only said those things out of concern for me. It may not be the best way to show love but in a round about way it was an expression of love and concern – of the “I know what’s best for you” variety.

NotYourMollyMormon wrote:

Am I possessed with a demon?

You missed a perfect opportunity to roll your eyes into the back of your head and growl ” 👿 NO 👿 !!!!”

What demon worth its weight in salt would admit to it? “Rats, you got me. It’s the one question I’m required to answer truthfully. I’ll be on my way to find someone that doesn’t have relatives savvy enough to ask me point blank whether I’m possessing their family member.”

Sometimes it helps me process a list of accusations like that by telling myself that the person making the accusations is projecting. In other words if your mom decided to take a break from the church it would be because she wants to stop wearing garments, is possessed by a demon, will become depressed, etc. It’s not necessarily true but when people spout off lists like that they can only speak to the reasons from their perspective. They may be completely blind to the fact that for some people taking a break from the church could be trading “up,” not trading “down.”

LOL You are right – I think my mom was expecting me to “admit it” like YEP you got me lol

but yea I know she cares and loves me but her approach is not my favorite lol her fears are not my fears – i just wish she could understand that

[Anonymous]

NotYourMollyMormon wrote:

SilentDawning wrote:

OUCH to the things in bold…OUCH!!! But that’s what we are up against in the church. This is tough — how it divides families when one person doesn’t appear to “tow the line”. I empathize with how you are feeling.

Quote:

Honestly – I called her out and said ” I find it really funny that you just spent almost an hour attacking my faith, my mind, and my character and yet you never asked “hey what’s going on, I am sorry you are feeling that way” or whatever…

I had to accept that I wouldn’t be as close to my family as I would have liked when I joined the church. it’s a bit different because they are non-members (Evangelicals), but it did cause an ache in my heart. But after a while, I formed new relationships and have managed to cope pretty well. There are times when I feel ostracized, but that is the price you pay for living your feelings and being yourself.

Give it a bit of time; if you live apart, don’t initiate contact with her right now. Hope that good Christian values overtake the severe judgmentalism (called Moat-Beam sickness) that has overtaken your mother. She is not well in that respect.

I have learned that on matters of personal choice, it’s SO MUCH BETTER to give people in your current state of belief, space. You are far more likely to get what you want in the end rather than lashing out or trying to force them — forcing or unkind words, or negative forms of motivation attempts, only entrench the behavior you DON’T WANT in the person. You Mom doesn’t get this. Give her space, minimize interaction for a while, and work on forging other positive relationships and experiences to fill the void.

I hope you let us know how it goes…

I know – it was not easy to listen to

Yea I will let time heal the wounds – I have already distanced myself from my mother for many years but i think this was an eye opening experience for me in that maybe the distance needs to be increased a little more …

Thanks for all the great advice. I will do my best and hopefully it all works out. I will post an update at some point

Do let us know how it goes. I know it can be hard when church matters interfere with the only permanent relationships we have on this earth (assuming people consider biological relationships permanent). I have experienced that. It’s important to find things to replace those relationships….and service, in or out of the church can be a good way to find fulfilment, I have found.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

My thoughts exactly! Thanks for sharing the story – I will stay unmoved. I refuse to let this get to me anymore than it has

:clap:

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