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Hello! 56 y/o married wm from greater St. Louis area. Hard of hearing veteran, college grad, work in the contract security field.
Joined the Church in 1979, left for awhile, came back in 1989went inactive in 1992. Resigned in 2008.
Am prayerfully considering a return to the LDS Church. Have attended regularly since March, have met with the ward bishop, am going through the process.
Not a lot of questions nor issues for me, just cannot profess to have a sincere testimony of the Book of Mormon, etcetera just now. Am reading/listening via podcast; and praying and duly studying whilst conforming my life to thr Mormon gospel.
Keep me in prayer!
Welcome to the forum. I hope we can help you find the peace you seek. A couple questions if you don’t mind. Is your wife a member? Member or not, how does she feel about this? Do you have others around you who can support you?
As to the BoM, I don’t have a sincere testimony, either. I’m not sure it is what it’s claimed to be. It is, however, a good book and I think people can come closer to God and Christ by reading it. FWIW, I have never been asked if I believe the BoM to be true. It’s not a temple recommend question and it’s not a baptism question for converts (those questions are here, scroll down:
https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-prepare-people-for-baptism-and-confirmation?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-prepare-people-for-baptism-and-confirmation?lang=eng Welcome to the rodeo! Many of us have been where you currently are.
Some of us came back.
Some stayed out.
This is a great place to discuss issues about the Church & Gospel.
Keep coming back.
I am fully capable of saying that the Book of Mormon is true. And believing it is true.
In the sense that Kahlil Gibran’s
Jesus, The Son of Manis true. Or, Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress, or Sheldon’s In His Stepsare true. As an allegorical story with true moral and philosophical principles and as a true guide to righteous living. As an historical record of people-groups who emigrated from the near east to the Americas in real time: this is a struggle with which I wrestle. And yet, much of the rest of the story of the Restoration depends on this historicity.
My confidence in the Holy Bible is only a bit stronger. Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Saul, David: betimes, I took the accounts of them pretty well as written.
I’ve come to realize, however, that these accounts were written six hundred years, perhaps a thousand years or more, after the events recorded. That much of at least the first half or two-thirds of the Old Testament is “faith-enhanced”, recountings of folk stories and legends and tall tales of people who never lived; or were composites of several people who lived; or who lived but who did few if any of the exploits attributed to them.
Yet: powerfully told stories. Life-transforming stories. Stories which bear greater truths than mere history can account for.
I’m reading some of Givens’ writings, some by Patrick Mason, some by Michael Ash. I am aware of Fowler’s Stages of Faith and of Perry’s work on the Stages of Moral and Ethical Development. These things are helpful. I certainly find the LDS Church appealing in so many ways. I support the principle of keeping coversations within the regular Sunday services faith-enhancing, geared towards the tenderest among us. Though venues for more-frank and open conversations would be nice.
I hope, Dark Jedi, that you are correct that the details and content of my faith are not thrust under a magnifying glass.
Oh btw: my wife is not LDS. But is comfortable with me going back. She herself has become Wiccan over the past year or thereabouts, but she thinks Mormos are sweeter than some Christians she knows. welcome flameburns623, thanks for sharing part of your story, and for expressing such positive and faithful thoughts on your desires to StayLDS.
flameburns623 wrote:Yet: powerfully told stories. Life-transforming stories. Stories which bear greater truths than mere history can account for.
I like how you shared this.
There can be meaning in our lives as we “liken” the scriptures to our lives.
flameburns623 wrote:I certainly find the LDS Church appealing in so many ways. I support the principle of keeping coversations within the regular Sunday services faith-enhancing, geared towards the tenderest among us. Though venues for more-frank and open conversations would be nice.
I agree, and find some accountability to the “tenderest” among us, hoping others are also careful of my tender needs.
Do you find you and your wife are able to see differences among mormons and viewpoints with greater compassion because of your life journey to this point so far?
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your humility and positive spirit. I look forward to learning more from you as you post with us. More-frank and open works well here. Welcome.
flameburns623 wrote:I am fully capable of saying that the Book of Mormon is true.
And believing it is true.
In the sense that Kahlil Gibran’s
Jesus, The Son of Manis true. Or, Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress, or Sheldon’s In His Stepsare true. As an allegorical story with true moral and philosophical principles and as a true guide to righteous living. As an historical record of people-groups who emigrated from the near east to the Americas in real time: this is a struggle with which I wrestle. And yet, much of the rest of the story of the Restoration depends on this historicity.
My confidence in the Holy Bible is only a bit stronger. Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Saul, David: betimes, I took the accounts of them pretty well as written.
I’ve come to realize, however, that these accounts were written six hundred years, perhaps a thousand years or more, after the events recorded. That much of at least the first half or two-thirds of the Old Testament is “faith-enhanced”, recountings of folk stories and legends and tall tales of people who never lived; or were composites of several people who lived; or who lived but who did few if any of the exploits attributed to them.
Yet: powerfully told stories. Life-transforming stories. Stories which bear greater truths than mere history can account for.
I’m reading some of Givens’ writings, some by Patrick Mason, some by Michael Ash. I am aware of Fowler’s Stages of Faith and of Perry’s work on the Stages of Moral and Ethical Development. These things are helpful. I certainly find the LDS Church appealing in so many ways. I support the principle of keeping coversations within the regular Sunday services faith-enhancing, geared towards the tenderest among us. Though venues for more-frank and open conversations would be nice.
I hope, Dark Jedi, that you are correct that the details and content of my faith are not thrust under a magnifying glass.
I think viewing the Bible and the BoM less literally is really key. Jesus taught with parables on purpose and we know they are not true stories but quote from them all the time. In LDS theology Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah. He could very well have been teaching in parables there as well. The Jews do not see what we call the OT as historical or literal, it is stories that have some historical context. I think the BoM can be viewed much the same. It doesn’t matter to me if Adam & Eve, Jonah, or Nephi were real, I get the same message from the stories as the person who does believe they were real. Isn’t that the important part?
Hi, flameburns – I’m glad you’re here and hope you enjoy it. I think you’d like listening to Dan Wotherspoon at mormonmatters.org. His podcasts are l-o-n-g, but he likes these issues, and usually discusses them with a panel. #277 from April 2015 – “Does Powerful Faith Require Scriptural Literalism?”
Looking forward to hearing more.
Welcome to StayLDS. It sounds like you’ve got a really good way to approach things. I suppose my question is why you resigned in 2008…resigning is a pretty big step, so I’m interested in knowing what changed since then to make it so you are considering rejoining, with only a small concern about the BoM (if I read your intro correctly). SilentDawning wrote:I suppose my question is why you resigned in 2008…resigning is a pretty big step, so I’m interested in knowing what changed since then to make it so you are considering rejoining, with only a small concern about the BoM (if I read your intro correctly).
I hadn’t been active in 18 years. Except for brief stints. My work schedule had not permitted regular Sunday attendance, hence no way to accept any callngs. No home teachers usually sought me out. Maybe once every five to six years. I never refused to see them: I just seem to have not been a priority.
And my questions were somewhat akin to those of one of the September Six, insofar as I saw Scripture (not just the BoM) as often more allegorical than historical. ‘
Infallible on matters of faith and morals‘, not necessarily in secular subjects. What they were calling “Chapel Mormonism” for a while was/is much more literalist and I wasn’t sure if I still fit in. If I spoke up about my style of reading Scriptures, would I have faced a Bishops Court? Meanwhile, I had other things going on religiously. I served as an at large pastor for a nondenominational Chrstian ministry. I volunteered for awhile at the local VA hospital. Felt I was doing well enough spiritually.
I had become a big coffee drinker, a moderate tea drinker, due to the long and irregular shifts I worked. So no Temple recommend, no temple ordinances. And since I was not attending, I wasn’t tithing either.
My quiet low-key heterodoxy combined with my involvement in other religious groups meant I was pretty well unplugged from Mormonism, so why retain a nominal membership?
Got it — that helps me understand the history — what was the trigger to consider coming back? If you don’t mind me asking all these questions 
SilentDawning wrote:Got it — that helps me understand the history — what was the trigger to consider coming back? If you don’t mind me asking all these questions
Longish story. With two main elements.
I went through a divorce some 20 years ago. My first wife wasn’t LDS either. Nor are any of my family. However, after my divorce, my Mom told me I should consider going back to the Mormon Church, because I “always seemed happier there”.
She has brought it up, just in passing a couple of times since then. Most recently, back in October.
Second part of this: I have a disabled friend who served several years as a Baptist pastor. His illnesses have kept him out of the pulpit for about fifteen years, which suits him fine: most Baptist churches these days expect a pastor to accomodate contemporary worship and modern Bible translations, both of which he loathes. He has actually attended Christian Science services simply to be able to enjoy a reverent Sunday service using the King James Bible and traditional hymnody.
He has, on-and-off, suggested he might want to attend an LDS service for the same reason. The main obstacle being the three-hour bloc, much longer than he is comfortable with. Also, after he knew that I had left the Church, he didn’t want to bug me.
He was being cared for, for several months, by a Mormon home-health nurse. She and he would briefly discuss Latter-Day Saint matters and he would come to me with questions, some of which thrust me into reading about the Church to check my own answers.
All of this converged in mid-February, when Mom had a health crisis which has led to a terminal diagnosis. She has brought up the LDS Church again. And she asked for prayer, not something she has ever done before. Which made me wish that I could have offered her a Priesthood blessing
At the same time, my friend’s nurse changed jobs and he wanted to get her an appropriate parting gift. I suggested a leatherbound edition of
Jesus the Christ(these become available regularly, and my friend sells used books to supplement his income and has resources to enable him to find a nice, clean copy). His nurse also asked him to attend an LDS sacrament service once, and promised to go out of her way to attend with him if he ever wanted to go. We made initial plans to do this, which fell through b/c my friend’s health went down for a few weeks. (He is better, and still says he wants to go sometime). I decided to go on my own, realized how much I have missed it, and the rest is history.
Mom is in a nursing care facility several hundred miles from me, and I can only see her once or so a month. I did tell her, during my last visit, that I was going back to the Mormon Church. She seemed pleased and said she’d told me a long time ago that she thought I’d be happier there. This from a woman who has NEVER SEEN the inside of an LDS meetinghouse.
Ann wrote:Hi, flameburns – I’m glad you’re here and hope you enjoy it. I think you’d like listening to Dan Wotherspoon at mormonmatters.org. His podcasts are l-o-n-g, but he likes these issues, and usually discusses them with a panel.
#277 from April 2015 – “Does Powerful Faith Require Scriptural Literalism?”
Looking forward to hearing more.
Thanks. This was very long and scholarly enough to be a struggle to follow in places.
I had a twelve hour shift, so plenty of time to listen but will need to listen again to follow all of the reasoning. With more breaks, I think.
Got it Flameburns. I understand now. I hope you make a decision that makes you happy. that’s the object of our time on this planet…SD
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