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Dh is a TBM. I am not. We have talked a lot about my issues with the church, and he has some too, but chooses to only focus on what he knows and what is good. I have tried very hard to be supportive of his faith, his calling, and have really worked on keeping our relationship strong as we navigate this new territory. However, the other night, things came to a head and I feel like I know where I stand and what he wants me to do and I am just frustrated and depressed. He says he understands my doubts, but thinks that it shouldn’t be that important because of all the good things that the church offers us. He doesn’t understand why I feel like many practices in the church are blatantly sexist, because I personally have never been treated badly. He says he doesn’t know why I don’t love him enough to wear my garments. I have tried to tell him that all the cultural stuff that drives me crazy all boils down to the fact that I just do not believe it’s true anymore. I don’t believe JS was a prophet, don’t believe we have a prophet now, don’t believe in the restored priesthood, the BoM, temples, etc. He thinks that I should just keep going along with everything because that is what I promised to do when we got married – go to church, attend the temple, fulfill callings, pay tithing, raise our kids in the gospel. I am so torn right now because on one hand, he’s right, we did talk about those things & promise each other to do them. I feel like I’m going back on my promises. But I also feel angry that he won’t allow me freedom to believe differently and change and grow. I am willing to continue to take our kids to church every Sunday, and support him in everything he wants to do. I have been doing those things for the past 2 years since I lost my testimony (or it was taken from me, or it evaporated or whatever). He admits that I have been supportive. I still teach in primary. He has mtgs and visits other wards on Sundays & I get our 4 children ready and take them to church alone most weeks. I have really tried to be friendly and open and affectionate with him, so he wouldn’t see the end of my orthodox faith as the end of our marriage and family. And yet, if I don’t wear my garments every day, he gets upset. He feels it means I don’t love him. I don’t want to change our lives drastically, but I want to relax a little about church. & I am going to be honest with our children. I will not sabotage his efforts to teach them, but I won’t lie or hide things from them either. He seems worried that I won’t be able to teach them standards if I don’t believe or hold a recommend. I don’t know. I have another year with my current recommend and I don’t know what I’ll do when the time comes to renew. I don’t know that I can answer all the questions honestly. My husband says he doesn’t want me to lie, but then he cries and says what about when our kids go on missions and get married? I just want to tell him that right now, I don’t want my daughters to marry someone that is taught that he is her spiritual leader and responsible for her eternal salvation. I don’t want my girls to feel like they have to defer to their husbands. I don’t want my son to spend 2 years teaching about a man and a book that he doesn’t know enough about to decide if it’s all true and good. I don’t really want the Mormon life for my kids. And yet, I do. I have been happy up until now. I feel like my husband’s pressure on me is making me bitter and more resistant to all the good in the church. This is really hard. After a tearful talk the other night, I started wearing my garments again, and I just feel weak and submissive and he is so happy & thinks I’ve decided to go back to how things were before & thinks everything is fine. I don’t know what to do. This is super long and rambling, sorry. anyone been through it like this? I can’t see it getting better. I don’t want to be bitter. I also want to live my life how I choose.
He says he doesn’t want me to have to lie or pretend, and that he’ll love me no matter what, but he also says he wants me to lie & pretend because I love him. Obviously not in so many words, but that’s the message I’m getting.
Hi Southern. I am your male counterpart – your story is so very similar to mine. Our main differences (besides gender) are that I stopped going to church when I had my crisis of faith, and I accept the idea that if my children want to be active participants in church, that’s fine with me and up to them – I don’t share with them about my beliefs (but they are obviously aware I don’t participate in prayer, etc.). My children range in age from 15-23, the oldest boy (19) is about to embark on a mission. I think it’s really unfair that your husband tells you that not wearing garments means you don’t love him. It’s not about that at all with me, and from what you say it’s not about that with you either. Loving your spouse and wearing garments are two very separate issues. I do wear my garments, but not because my DW formally guilted me into it, but because I didn’t want to deal with the issue of not wearing them. I know that some of my beliefs hurt my wife, but I can’t help that – I believe what I believe based on my experiences. It sounds like you are able to communicate about your issues more with your husband than I am with my wife, so maybe a clearer explanation or discussion about garment wear might be in order. Or you could just suck it up like I do.
10 years ago, even 2 years ago, I couldn’t see it getting better. I’m not going to tell you it will because I don’t know that. It did get better for me, and this site has been such a tremendous help. I still have questions and sincere doubts, and there are still things I don’t believe. Most people here have things they don’t believe and have come to some middle ground or understanding on their issues – doing things their own way. I don’t think you have to lie or pretend, but you can’t be openly honest with most others, either. I am in the process of “rebuilding” my faith – deciding what I do believe, don’t believe, and have questions about. For instance, I do believe there is a God, but I don’t think he has the same attributes most TBMs believe he does. I do believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I do believe there is someone on earth authorized to speak for God, but I don’t think God regularly, or maybe even ever, speaks to him. The list goes on. This process of rebuilding has helped me more clearly define what I do believe and where the church fits in. I would encourage you to start your own rebuilding, however small that faith may be.
My heart goes out to you. I’m sure others will chime in with more relevant advice. Good luck!
I still have a bit of a testimony that I was right to join, but I have commitment problems, and I empathize. Fortunately, my wife doesn’t push me to get fully active….perhaps because of the role I play in our family on many other fronts where apparently, I do an OK job. You have to work this out with your husband — and try to find a middle ground. As long as I support the kids in going to church, support her in her callings, and don’t destroy my kids testimonies (to the extent they have them), she’s OK with me — so far. I think it’s because I do a pretty good job (according to her) in so many other aspects of our marriage, she tolerates my lack of commitment.
One thing to consider is to work on doing a really good job in other areas of the family life, not just Church. Try to compensate for lack of church commitment by doing a phenomenal job in other areas that fit yoru strengths as a wife and mother and other roles you have in the marriage.
Also, you can dedicate your time to some cause you feel very passionate about outside of church. This can be a good proxy for service in the church. You can refuse callings and avoid confronting the things you don’t believe as a teacher/leader, by indicating that in this season of your life, you feel the “Spirit” telling you, you should be involved in serving the community.
I am comfortable pretending now, as church only represents 5% of my life. That’s my bit of advice from my own life perspective.
(((((Southern))))) My heart is aching for you as I read your post. When I first brought up my questions and doubts, my husband’s first response was that if I went down “that path” we wouldn’t be able to be married anymore. Thank goodness he came around and now we’re on the same page. It sounds like your husband doesn’t know how to separate your relationship to each other with your relationship with the church. I don’t blame him. As Mormons, our lives and identities are so enmeshed with the church that it seems impossible to separate the two. Even when we get married in the temple, we’re not making promises to love and cherish one another, to serve one another, to stand by each other, etc. We make promises to God related to church. I feel the same as you about garments and the sexist nature of things at church. I’ve made decisions that caused me great pain based on the “hearken unto thy husband” line I was fed in the temple. It’s hard for my DH to understand these things too because he doesn’t see it as a big deal.
Southern wrote:He seems worried that I won’t be able to teach them standards if I don’t believe or hold a recommend.
This was something I was worried about. The church kind of takes over the teaching standards and values to children and the parents are just there for support it seems like. There’s a method called Value Based Parenting that you should look at. I’m just starting to learn about it, but basically you and your DH determine what your core values are that are most important to you and that you want to instill in your children and then it helps you learn how to teach those values to them in everyday situations. If raising kids LDS was the only way to teach good morals and standards, then around 98% of the world’s population would have absolutely no moral compass. We see good people in the world all the time. Maybe if you show your husband (in a very casual non-confrontational way) some of these resources he might start to see that you can be a great mother even if you no longer believe in the LDS church.
Southern wrote:I just want to tell him that right now, I don’t want my daughters to marry someone that is taught that he is her spiritual leader and responsible for her eternal salvation. I don’t want my girls to feel like they have to defer to their husbands. I don’t want my son to spend 2 years teaching about a man and a book that he doesn’t know enough about to decide if it’s all true and good. I don’t really want the Mormon life for my kids.
This is how I feel too. My kids are still young, ranging from 10 months to 9 years. I don’t want them to experience what I did with my disaffection or whatever you want to call it. The Mormon life, as you called it, feels safe. Everything is laid out for you and all you have to do is follow the plan. The plan caused me to go against what I really felt was right for me. I don’t have any great advice in this area. I’m in the process and exploring what spirituality separate from the LDS church means to me and from there I’ll determine what role, if any, I want the church to play in my life and the lives of my children. I’m currently seeing a non-LDS therapist who is helping guide me through this. She doesn’t tell me what to believe or what not to believe, but helps me figure out my own feelings and find a sense of authenticity and worth completely separate from my LDS identity that I was raised with.
Again, so sorry that you’re going through this. You’ve got to find a way to feel like you’re being true to yourself. Continuing to pretend solely for your husband’s happiness is only going to make things worse for you and will ultimately hurt your relationship with him too.
What May 8 said. I’ve never understood why there’s this either/or attitude about believing in the lds church and holding a recommend or being morally depraved. It’s like saying that if you lose your testimony the 10 commandments and Sermon on the Mount go out the window. He just needs to understand that raising morally aware, decent children that will love God and their neighbor isn’t an exclusive mormon virtue. You may not be able to go along with the culture and some of the side issues but that’s not what’s important. One last observation. From my experience most marriages go sour because one partner comes to believe that they’re not being listened to and not being respected. Going along to get along is not the same as compromise and is only going to get a person so far. I hope your husband understands that. I didn’t.
I will never forget the moment I was just done with wearing garments 24/7/365. I was crying when I told my husband how I felt about them. The panic registered on his face. I was immediately concerned for him. But there we were, at odds. We were careful with each other and didn’t make demands. We’ve both searched around for middle ground and alternatives. He thought about it a little, and said, “My parents didn’t’ wear garments at night.” He was truly just thinking aloud, not setting new boundaries for me, but just realizingthat people he loved and admired had worn their garments differently than he does. Choosing when to wear them has made such a difference for me. And my head will explode if someone tells me that not wearing them “as instructed in the temple” means that I don’t love Jesus Christ.
I have three thoughts that may or may not be helpful. Southern wrote:I have really tried to be friendly and open and affectionate with him, so he wouldn’t see the end of my orthodox faith as the end of our marriage and family. And yet, if I don’t wear my garments every day, he gets upset. He feels it means I don’t love him…..I don’t really want the Mormon life for my kids.
I think it is worth mentioning that he may believe that if you don’t keep all your covenants then you won’t be together after this life. In his way of thinking, that might be like a time delayed divorce. And then not having kids that pass all the Mormon milestones like missions and temple marriages – might he think that your kids would then end up in the terrestrial kingdom or as I’ve heard it called “a nicely decorated version of hell”? Until he adjusts his thinking – these may be deal breakers.
Southern wrote:He thinks that I should just keep going along with everything because that is what I promised to do when we got married – go to church, attend the temple, fulfil callings, pay tithing, raise our kids in the gospel. I am so torn right now because on one hand, he’s right, we did talk about those things & promise each other to do them. I feel like I’m going back on my promises. But I also feel angry that he won’t allow me freedom to believe differently and change and grow.
I’ve heard that before, only in reference to baptism. Am I really going to be held for the rest of my life to a promise I only vaguely understood at 8 years old???? Life involves growth and change, disappointment and compromise. Some people are better at adapting to that than others. I hope that over time your husband will learn to adapt.
Southern wrote:This is really hard. After a tearful talk the other night, I started wearing my garments again, and I just feel weak and submissive and he is so happy & thinks I’ve decided to go back to how things were before & thinks everything is fine.
Often when DW and I fight and then reconcile – we continue on with life as usual. This can be fine for forgiving a random hurtful comment – but when the source of the contention is that one spouse wants a change from “life as usual” – this can be problematic. Let’s say that I forgot a holiday and DW is mad. We fight and then reconcile, but nothing has really changed and the next holiday is too far away for this fight to really enact meaningful change in the future.
I feel like you and your spouse are having a tug-of-war but then the pull of habit steps in and trends towards the status quo. So if you are going to change “life as usual” it needs to be specific and consistent. Sounds like you do a lot to live the Mormon life. He might fear that even small changes will open the door to a slippery slope of debauchery.
What are you willing to continue to do indefinitely? It might help if you let him know that you will continue to do XYZ but you will no longer do A,B,C. (for example I continue to attend church, raise my kids in the church, support DW, obey the WoW and Chastity, do fathers blessings, participate in FHE, and wear garments – I don’t pay tithing, have a TR or a calling, and I watch “R” movies) This doesn’t necessarily make it easier but it may be the most effective way of changing “life as usual.” After that it becomes your husband’s challenge to adapt to the new status quo.
Thank you so much everyone. You all have such good advice and it’s just nice to know others are going through stuff too. I just got home from work, and I have to get ready for relief society (which I really enjoy!), but I wanted to thank you all for taking the time to empathize with and counsel a total stranger. I think that I thought this would be easier – dh and I have always been so close & have a great marraige. It’s tough when we can’t understand each other, because usually even when we disagree we can see the other’s point of view. I don’t have faith in a lot right now, but I am trying to believe it will all be OK eventually.
I’ll keep you posted…
Southern, welcome to the site! I think you’ve already figured out that the key is to keep the communication open. I think part of the issue is that as marriage partners we get the idea that we are one when we are really two. We can’t control our spouse’s behavior. It seems like that is freaking out your DH at times, the fact that you aren’t aligned with him on everything and that you want to do things that differ from his preferences. A few additional thoughts: Quote:it shouldn’t be that important because of all the good things that the church offers us.
I do think it’s a good idea to stay focused on the positive, but also to communicate the negatives you experience.
Quote:He doesn’t understand why I feel like many practices in the church are blatantly sexist, because I personally have never been treated badly.
I suppose that’s a fair point. It can still bother you to feel disrespected or disregarded. I too don’t feel mistreated, but I do feel disengaged. I often feel dismissed like what I think doesn’t matter to anyone in the church because I’m a woman. My DH would say they don’t care what he thinks either since he’s not in a leadership role.
Quote:He says he doesn’t know why I don’t love him enough to wear my garments.
He’s definitely conflating two things here. People can love each other and not be endowed. People who wear their garments could NOT love each other. It’s unfair IMO for him to ask you to wear them in the way he wants; this is too personal for you to bow to pressure. I would probably keep on this one.
Quote:I have tried to tell him that all the cultural stuff that drives me crazy all boils down to the fact that I just do not believe it’s true anymore.
That’s the crux of faith. We are willing to do things we don’t want to do because we believe. When we don’t believe, or we lose the suspension of disbelief, we suddenly don’t feel willing to do the things we now see as silly intrusions.
Quote:He thinks that I should just keep going along with everything because that is what I promised to do when we got married
Mormon therapist gave great advice on this one. Spouses do get freaked out by change because we made our marital commitments years ago, and they want to be sure this doesn’t mean that is changing too. I’d just be clear what you are willing to do (focus on that) and what you are not willing to do (clarify that). I’d first be clear on it for yourself and then communicate it to him.
Keep us posted and best of luck navigating this.
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