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Before I even got into your points, I was thinking of some of the same items you mention. Something along the lines of telling him
Quote:Our last discussion had a shock when you said essentially that I wasn’t temple worthy. I had read many talks that discuss how doubt is OK. I think it would be true to say I have doubts and I seem to hear that that is ok. I even hear some bishops that hear about someone having doubts and they tell them to try and attend the temple MORE often, not take away their recommend. I would like to say that I do have doubts, but I do exercise faith to work on those doubt. It feels a bit like I was told if I wasn’t perfect you will never fit in.
I could see many bishops backing off a bit if you said that. But you also list a few like items on your list.Regarding your options: 1. I’d leave it. Talking to the SP is just spilling to another leader and it’s “like a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re gonna get.” In all likelihood your BP’s day are numbered, or you could exercise one of your other options and not have to deal with him anyway.
2. Taking a break works for some. I like that you see it as a couple months. I took a break of 10 years and don’t recommend it being that long. On the other hand, once you get used to not going it can be easy to stretch the break.
3. You get to choose where you go to church as far as YSA or regular ward, even if you are under 30. While it’s true most young people are understandably happier in a YSA ward, policy does allow for you to choose to attend the ward in which you live (unless there’s something I have missed in a fairly recent policy change). But it’s another box of chocolates, both for ward makeup and leadership.
4. You said you could answer all the questions, so the only reason you would have to not have a temple is if you choose not to. There are people on the board who could have one and don’t, there are those who do have one but don’t go to the temple (I’m in that group), and there are those who can’t answer the questions or feel they can’t answer them in a nuanced way. If you can answer the questions (and they require only yes or no answers) your BP/SP are pretty much bound to give you a recommend unless they have some compelling evidence not to (and your confessions doesn’t fit that category IMO).
Oh, almost forgot – we sometimes talk about being orthoprax here as opposed to be orthodox. You can search for that term and see, but it essentially means doing the things )perhaps as opposed to believing them). For instance, you might not believe the temple garments offer any special protection or hold any special meaning, but still wear them (for whatever reason).
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1. Appeal to the stake president (or my branch president again). Tell him my perspective how I can disbelief but have faith in the same time.2. Leave the church entirely for a couple of months. Feel everything out and see if feel better or see how the other side isn’t at all that bad. The church has cause so much grief that maybe it might be more healthy to leave. Just not be Mormon for awhile. (but still have some standards)
3. Request to leave YSA (I’m already over age by 8 months) and try again with a new bishop.
4. Continue my disbelief and never temple recommend status (I don’t know how I can handle that).
Again, I probably won’t do any of these for a couple of months. Right now I’m still reeling from the shock. I should’t make any decisions at this state.
For #1 — definitely out — talking candidly to priesthood leaders about matters of disbelief only leads to loss of priviledges — they are administrators first, in my view, and will vary widely in the hardness of their approach to you. Too risky, too unpredictable. Plus, they may see you as someone contributing to the % of TR holders without current temple recommends if you go to the temple, and then don’t renew it. They are accountable for those numbers. Plus, you already said you don’t believe so they will wonder if you are telling the truth if you do an about-face. You need to get yourself in front of a different leader, or show a dramatic shift in your belief. And be prepared to jump through hoops.
For #2: Maybe. I’m never one to encourage leaving for a while. But I have to confess, I have found things outside the church that are fulfilling. If you do take this route, it will only entrench the idea that you are a non-believer to your BP, so I would not do this one.
For #3 — This is a possiblity. But if you do it immediately, it might look like you are simply leader-hopping. I would do this after a couple months of good activity to throw them off the scent.
For #4 — doesn’t sound right for you right now. I think you want to be part of the experience. So, I would go for #3.
One thing — you may feel emotion right now and want to DO SOMETHING to get the control you think you might have lost. I have found that drastic measures often don’t do that. They make you feel like you did something, but they can actually worsen the situation. I believe that in this situation, soft, non-confrontive, covert methods are better where you simply don’t draw attention to yourself, and make whatever changes you need to, in order to get a good start.
If you go out of the YSA Ward, what impact will this have on the availability of suitable spouses in the future? You said you wanted to get married eventually. I would consider that as well.
SilentDawning wrote:For #1 — definitely out — talking candidly to priesthood leaders about matters of disbelief only leads to loss of priviledges — they are administrators first, in my view, and will vary widely in the hardness of their approach to you. Too risky, too unpredictable. Plus, they may see you as someone contributing to the % of TR holders without current temple recommends if you go to the temple, and then don’t renew it. They are accountable for those numbers. Plus, you already said you don’t believe so they will wonder if you are telling the truth if you do an about-face. You need to get yourself in front of a different leader, or show a dramatic shift in your belief. And be prepared to jump through hoops.
This is an important point. Not all leaders are like this but if you talk to someone about a problem (I’m not saying disbelief is a problem, just talking about problems in general) it can create bias. If you go to the stake president to explain your disbelief he may start to view you in a certain light from that point on. Then every subsequent visit you have with him starts from a place where you have to dig yourself out of a hole. That may not happen at all but there’s always the risk.
2. Taking a sabbatical can be a good thing. Sometimes we’re too close to the “problem” to see the solution. The only thing that comes to mind in your scenario; if you are building your case to go to the temple I wouldn’t advertise the sabbatical or make it long enough to be noticed.
3. It’s probably my personality type but I always preferred the family wards over the YSA wards. Again I like SD’s advice here. Give yourself several months in the new ward before talking with the bishop about going to the temple.
Going back to #1, if you never have the conversation about belief with the new bishop you won’t have to work extra hard to convince them that you believe (or whatever conditions they might impose). You’d be like anyone else coming in for a recommend, no additional obstacle in the bishops mind for you to overcome.
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The bishop probably feels like receiving the endowment is a big step. What about baptisms for the dead? Going to the temple often to do baptisms for the dead may show a leader your level of commitment and it may give you a better idea on whether or not you want to receive the endowment.
Eck. The more advice I read the more I wish I didn’t come out. I should of consulted with this board first. I’m totally regretting this right now. Again, waffling again with my belief system again. I hate how stressful this is.
I think it’s fixable. If I go back to my branch president and clarify my beliefs a bit more (historically can’t believe any of it but I do find a lot of spiritual truths in it). Again, I waffle day to day. One day I believe, the next day I don’t. I think part of is that I’m freaking out over this transition.
Quote:Mczee wrote:
I think it’s fixable. If I go back to my branch president and clarify my beliefs a bit more (historically can’t believe any of it but I do find a lot of spiritual truths in it). Again, I waffle day to day. One day I believe, the next day I don’t. I think part of is that I’m freaking out over this transition.
Maybe just give him time to forget about you and your conversation with him? Branch Presidents are busy people. There is a really good chance that between his work, family, and calling, your faith questions are low on his memory list. Just show up to activities, be involved, be really helpful. Go do baptisms at the temple. Let him see you as someone out there helping others .. Rather than someone who needs to be saved. Actions are better than any conversation.
Meanwhile, you can figure out how you feel about involvement in the church without belief in the history.
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