LDS Culture

[Anonymous]

I’ve listened to a couple of podcasts recently with members who have experienced changes in their faith but still choose to stay in the church. A repeated sentiment I keep hearing is how many of these members love the culture of the church and how the culture is such a huge part of who they are and why they stay. I have a hard time relating to this idea because what I think of as “the culture” is something I grit my teeth and tolerate on a good day. I feel nauseated by a good 90% of the merchandise at Deseret Book, and I’ve started blocking anyone on Facebook who posts an LDS meme. Maybe I am misunderstanding what these people on the podcasts mean by culture, but I am just not getting it. If anything, the culture makes me want to leave.

[Anonymous]

What I assume they are saying is how people feel part of a group – they know someone has their back. If they stumble, there will be people to pick them up.

Last year one of our Stake Conferences was basically “taking care of our [Mormon] Brothers and Sisters.” It was a bit impressive how much the troops will rally when someone is in deep need.

I was able to resist getting up and yelling, “What about our non-baptized brothers and sisters?”

BTW – What are some of the podcasts?

[Anonymous]

There are two types of people in this world. People who love LDS culture and people who don’t.

There can be a lot to love. I think what gets me is that LDS culture is generally not that accepting of non-conformity, a diversity of perspectives, and doubters in general. The culture at one time enveloped me in a sense of belonging, safety, and connectedness. I also recognise that the culture has strong defenses and will reject and attack you (in a fairly non-confrontational way) if you become labeled as a threat.

Do you fit in against the backdrop of the culture or do you stick out like a sore thumb?

[Anonymous]

For me, this is a good discussion topic in a Forum like this. For example, what do you love about the culture even though you may not believe as you once did?

I would answer this

1. The culture of service to others. That is so ingrained in me I can’t go more than a few days without trying to serve someone in some capacity.

2. The culture of getting along with people. I have served in the community and there is far more backbiting and disloyalty, and political behavior than in the church.

3. The culture of putting youth first. AT one time it ticked me off when my own adult needs seemed neglected, but now that I have a daughter who needs it, I love that aspect of it. It has helped her so much.

The cultural stuff I can’t stand is a longer list, but I still think there are things to love about church culture.

[Anonymous]

I look back to when I did enjoy much of the culture and I marvel at my personal change. Right now I find myself doing much of what you mentioned. Face book is very protected and modified, I don’t have a book store near me, but I would not attend if I did, and I cringe when we create “the world revolves around us” type thing.

I also wonder why it irks me now. If it is so “not me” why does it creep under my skin. Why do panic in embarrassment? Why does my heart sink when family members send me stuff? I don’t think if a Jewish friend or Catholic friend sent me something I would react so much – It’s weird to me.

It’s like running into an old boyfriend. I am always trying to duck.

In short, I hear you. Day by day I feel myself claiming a different culture while still attending this religion.

[Anonymous]

The LDS Church culture works really well for settlers, generally speaking.

It doesn’t work as well for explorers.

In order for it to work WELL for explorers, they need to be comfortable in settlements – but they also need to be comfortable not internalizing and being okay when people criticize them for wandering.

In short, they have to recognize why they struggle and be confident in who they are.

[Anonymous]

SD, I like your list. I agree with your three points, each has been important to me at various points in my life.

1) The culture of service to others: Over the years I’ve mostly been in a position to serve people in church. Now I find myself in a position where I need service from people in church. I’m finding that this is a very difficult position to be in, I don’t particularly like asking people for help. I really want to give back once my current situation improves. Perhaps that’s the takeaway, to be on the other end so I can see firsthand just how important service really is.

2) The culture of getting along with people: That’s an important one, one that I’m still working on. Every once in a while I’ll catch myself judging other people’s motivations as being political. Like you say, it’s relative. Much less prevalent (or evident? ) in the church culture.

3) The culture of putting youth first: My happiest time in the church was as a young single adult. The church facilitated creating and nurturing friendships. In those days I’d do things with a group of church friends nearly every day of the week, and I’m an introvert. I’m sure most of those years would have been spent alone if not for church friendships.

Here the culture can bite us though, being a RM can make a big big difference at that age. Looking back my group of friends had several people that didn’t serve a mission and they weren’t treated any differently. I didn’t live in their skin though, I don’t know what they saw through their eyes.

SD, I really like how you focused on the positives.

—-

This really comes down to how you define “culture.” It’s very encompassing, when someone gives a thumbs up or thumbs down to the culture as a whole they are probably weighing all their positives against all their negatives and coming out of that process with a net positive view. Their negatives are still negatives though.

NonTraditionalMom wrote:

If anything, the culture makes me want to leave.

I’ve said as much several times.

I mentioned earlier that my fondest time as a member of the church was when I was a young single adult. I’m not lamenting married life or being older or anything , when I really think about what changed it comes down to this: in those days we got together to share our lives with other people, and of course church was a part of our lives. Now church culture feels like getting together to share just church with other people. Maybe that’s a function of the added responsibilities that come with aging, no one has the time (or they prioritize their time differently). I had a whole silly analogy typed up that I ended up axing but I’ll leave it at this: I wish we’d talk less about church when we’re at church. Church is only a small part of our lives.

[Anonymous]

Nibbler wrote

Quote:

in those days we got together to share our lives with other people, and of course church was a part of our lives. Now church culture feels like getting together to share just church with other people.

I actually think it has changed. The church culture of my youth and early adulthood has dissipated. I don’t know if it’s correlation or what, but there were a lot more times to get together and hang out that didn’t have missionary or building the kingdom connection. My husband played on a volleyball team, the team was mixed members and non, we all turned out to cheer them on, have some food, good times. Before the church changed ward finances under President Hinckley, our ward had a full on catering business to earn money. Delicious food, full formal dinner ware, snappy servers and preppers. Tons of fun, great money getter, and helped us mingle with no more purpose than giving a good evening to some group or event.

Now everything has Priesthood Purpose, missionary underpinnings, perfecting the saints and so on. Even mid-week Relief Society has to have a “church related” connection. Utah’s reach has grown too far IMHO

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

Nibbler wrote

Quote:

in those days we got together to share our lives with other people, and of course church was a part of our lives. Now church culture feels like getting together to share just church with other people.

I actually think it has changed. The church culture of my youth and early adulthood has dissipated. I don’t know if it’s correlation or what, but there were a lot more times to get together and hang out that didn’t have missionary or building the kingdom connection. My husband played on a volleyball team, the team was mixed members and non, we all turned out to cheer them on, have some food, good times. Before the church changed ward finances under President Hinckley, our ward had a full on catering business to earn money. Delicious food, full formal dinner ware, snappy servers and preppers. Tons of fun, great money getter, and helped us mingle with no more purpose than giving a good evening to some group or event.

Now everything has Priesthood Purpose, missionary underpinnings, perfecting the saints and so on. Even mid-week Relief Society has to have a “church related” connection. Utah’s reach has grown too far IMHO

I agree with you Mom, and I have noticed the same thing. Why can’t we just have a party once in a while without it having to be “bring a friend” or some such thing? I realize we aren’t forced to bring friends, and I never do. But I also don’t go to our nearly monthly bring a friend activities for this very reason: I don’t necessarily want to put on a “Meet the Mormons” of “I’m a Mormon” show for somebody (FWIW, one of these recent activities was actually showing Meet the Mormons). I recall the early 80s as being my favorite years in the church and my best years, and I’m sure that’s in part because my ward was just very enjoyable.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

SD, I like your list. I agree with your three points, each has been important to me at various points in my life.

Thanks Nibbler. It’s gotten easier now that I have a new girlfriend (community service as a substitute for church service). I also don’t get exposed as much to the church culture that bothers me, yet I see what my daughter gets from it, which is positive. So, I’ve ordered my life in a way that the negative aspects are minimized, and the positive aspects, are maximized.

Today I looked up and three ours went by as I toiled on a carefully worded letter as part of my community service. Been a long time since I had that level of flow in my church service….

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

mom3 wrote:

Nibbler wrote

Quote:

in those days we got together to share our lives with other people, and of course church was a part of our lives. Now church culture feels like getting together to share just church with other people.

I actually think it has changed. The church culture of my youth and early adulthood has dissipated. I don’t know if it’s correlation or what, but there were a lot more times to get together and hang out that didn’t have missionary or building the kingdom connection. My husband played on a volleyball team, the team was mixed members and non, we all turned out to cheer them on, have some food, good times. Before the church changed ward finances under President Hinckley, our ward had a full on catering business to earn money. Delicious food, full formal dinner ware, snappy servers and preppers. Tons of fun, great money getter, and helped us mingle with no more purpose than giving a good evening to some group or event.

Now everything has Priesthood Purpose, missionary underpinnings, perfecting the saints and so on. Even mid-week Relief Society has to have a “church related” connection. Utah’s reach has grown too far IMHO

I agree with you Mom, and I have noticed the same thing. Why can’t we just have a party once in a while without it having to be “bring a friend” or some such thing? I realize we aren’t forced to bring friends, and I never do. But I also don’t go to our nearly monthly bring a friend activities for this very reason: I don’t necessarily want to put on a “Meet the Mormons” of “I’m a Mormon” show for somebody (FWIW, one of these recent activities was actually showing Meet the Mormons). I recall the early 80s as being my favorite years in the church and my best years, and I’m sure that’s in part because my ward was just very enjoyable.

With the risk of being a quintessential old guy and going on about “the good old days”, I would have to agree with all that was said. I feel that life has gotten much busier than when I was a kid/youth (where are roadshows and regional basketball playoffs?) and it feels as if the church felt threatened by that encroachment and to counter it tried to occupy even more of our time.

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

I look back to when I did enjoy much of the culture and I marvel at my personal change. Right now I find myself doing much of what you mentioned. Face book is very protected and modified, I don’t have a book store near me, but I would not attend if I did, and I cringe when we create “the world revolves around us” type thing.

I also wonder why it irks me now. If it is so “not me” why does it creep under my skin. Why do panic in embarrassment? Why does my heart sink when family members send me stuff? I don’t think if a Jewish friend or Catholic friend sent me something I would react so much – It’s weird to me.

It’s like running into an old boyfriend. I am always trying to duck.

In short, I hear you. Day by day I feel myself claiming a different culture while still attending this religion.

YES! I am so glad it’s not just me. Sometimes I wonder if I’m the only one who doesn’t want a distressed vinyl quote to hang on the wall or own the latest David Archuleta CD. I guess I’ve been thinking of LDS culture as pictured in the Deseret Book catalog– lots of Mormon-themed art, literature, music, and of course, modest yet fashionable clothing– and that makes me squeamish. Maybe it’s the outward conformity that bugs me. Honestly, aside from the time in YW in the early 90’s when we regularly made wooden crafts painted with the value colors, I have never been fond of LDS pop culture. Pop culture– I think that is what I can’t stand.

This, though, is different…

SilentDawning wrote:

1. The culture of service to others. That is so ingrained in me I can’t go more than a few days without trying to serve someone in some capacity.

2. The culture of getting along with people. I have served in the community and there is far more backbiting and disloyalty, and political behavior than in the church.

3. The culture of putting youth first. AT one time it ticked me off when my own adult needs seemed neglected, but now that I have a daughter who needs it, I love that aspect of it. It has helped her so much.

I love the idea of focusing on the positives.

I am a little bit concerned about the 3rd point, though. My son is a deacon and has already run into issues with scouting. He feels a lot of pressure from his leaders to be serious about scouts when he is just not into it. While I am willing to help as much as he needs, I don’t want to add to the pressure and I want him to take responsibility for what he chooses to do with it. So in that regard, I feel kind of frustrated that there is so much focus on grooming the youth to match ideal LDS culture.

I’m also struggling with visiting teaching. One of the sisters I visit is so nice, but I get the idea that she does not want us in her home. She often cancels or just waits for us on the porch. I completely understand– between work and school, I’m often gone during the day, so it’s a pain trying to find a time for my VTs to come. On top of that, I always feel like my house needs to look perfectly presentable, and sometimes, I just don’t want people to come over and hang out for an hour. I feel like I want to tell her that I get it, even if her reasons are different than mine, and give her an out, but I feel like the culture tells us that we need to have in-home visits as often as possible.

LookingHard wrote:

BTW – What are some of the podcasts?

I have had a long commute for the past little bit, so I’ve been listening to podcasts A LOT. And of course, I can’t remember exactly who said what. I’ve been listening to the Mormon Matters podcast with Dan Wotherspoon– there are quite a few where he talks to non-traditional Mormons. I really like his take on things.

[Anonymous]

NonTraditionalMom wrote:

I’m also struggling with visiting teaching. One of the sisters I visit is so nice, but I get the idea that she does not want us in her home. She often cancels or just waits for us on the porch. I completely understand– between work and school, I’m often gone during the day, so it’s a pain trying to find a time for my VTs to come. On top of that, I always feel like my house needs to look perfectly presentable, and sometimes, I just don’t want people to come over and hang out for an hour. I feel like I want to tell her that I get it, even if her reasons are different than mine, and give her an out, but I feel like the culture tells us that we need to have in-home visits as often as possible.

Why don’t you figure a way TO tell her. Admit to her that sometimes you feel such pressure to squeeze in the VT’s coming over and if my house is clean enough. Then I worry that you are thinking the same and I don’t want to be yet another burden. So please tell me if you would rather a phone call. I just want you to know that I like being your VT and I hope that if you ever run into a rough time that you feel comfortable enough with me to ask me to help. But what do I know – I am a guy with a guy brain.

NonTraditionalMom wrote:

LookingHard wrote:

BTW – What are some of the podcasts?

I have had a long commute for the past little bit, so I’ve been listening to podcasts A LOT. And of course, I can’t remember exactly who said what. I’ve been listening to the Mormon Matters podcast with Dan Wotherspoon– there are quite a few where he talks to non-traditional Mormons. I really like his take on things.

I too like Mormon Matters. I have a few fav’s from that site, but at the same time – there are a few of them where they are in a different dimension than I am. He recently had Adam Miller. I love Adam’s book, “Letter’s to a young Mormon”. I wish I had it as a youth. But some of his other books makes me feel like I am in middle school reading a college book. I understand the words, but can’t always get the meaning. I guess his “Letter’s to a young Mormon” is written at a much lower grade level of reading – so I can “get it”.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

The cultural stuff I can’t stand is a longer list,

Does the forum even have enough disk space for that list?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I’m also struggling with visiting teaching

For me, I tell my visiting teachers that a quarterly visit is perfect. I explain how busy my schedule is and that if I need anything I will contact them. I even tell them they can count the in between months, especially if I bump into them at church or whatever. I back my statement up by stating that Julie Beck – General Relief Society President encourages the spirit over the letter of the law. It has worked great. No guilt, nothing. I also try to make it a non-visit, suggest grabbing an ice cream at such and such a place. Their job is to check on you, that’s all.

The handbook of instructions says,

Quote:

Visiting teachers sincerely come to know and

love each sister, help her strengthen her faith,

and give service. They seek personal inspiration

to know how to respond to the spiritual and temporal

needs of each sister they are assigned to

visit.

Taking into account each sister’s individual

needs and circumstances, visiting teachers have

regular contact (monthly if possible) with those

they are assigned. When a personal visit is not

possible, visiting teachers may use phone calls,

letters, e-mail, or other means to watch over and

strengthen sisters.

When appropriate, visiting teachers share a

gospel message. These messages may be from the

monthly visiting teaching message printed in the

En sign or Liahona magazine and the scriptures.

Visit ing teachers give compassionate service

during times of illness, death, and other special

circumstances. They assist the Relief Society

president in coordinating short-term and longterm

assistance when invited.

There is a lot of leniency there, use it as it suits you. Face book friend, email, – this works for me. I can respond at midnight, you can, too and no stress necessary. Even a message isn’t required. The optimal word is MAY. The ball can be in your court as much as you like.

[Author]

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