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It’s a little drop of water but maybe it will begin to soften the soil. Read, enjoy, discuss. http://ldsmag.com/the-problem-with-overemphasizing-modesty/#.VcynQoGLCSM.twitter ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://ldsmag.com/the-problem-with-overemphasizing-modesty/#.VcynQoGLCSM.twitter Quote:Modesty is a loaded term (particularly within an LDS context); it can refer to one’s attitude, disposition, and, as is most commonly thought of, to one’s clothing
Quote:Still, I am concerned that some in our Mormon community have (deeply) misunderstood and misinterpreted this principle.
Quote:1) When we reduce the concept of modesty to what females wear, we are reinforcing the very thing that modesty is supposed to help avoid: the sexual objectification of women’s bodies.
Quote:2) Overemphasizing modesty can unintentionally teach that girls are responsible for boys’ sexual thoughts and behaviors.
Quote:3) Overemphasizing modesty can shame girls for having a feminine body and for physically developing into a woman.
Quote:4) Overemphasizing modesty gives others implicit permission to judge and measure a woman’s dedication to the gospel, or “worthiness,” based on physical appearance.
Quote:5) Overemphasizing modesty in our young women may send a message that modesty does not apply to males.
Quote:“an attitude of propriety and decency in dress, grooming, language, and behavior. If we are modest, we do not draw undue attention to ourselves”
I want my daughters to be immodest. I want them to have political ideas that create real change. I want them to set goals that exceed their grasp. I want them to stand out. I want them to pursue objectives and accomplish tasks that change society for the better.
If their slip shows while they are accomplishing such heady tasks, I don’t care. I am hoping my daughters can achieve an obscene level of success.
What is that old phrase .. Ah yes .. “Well Behaved Women Seldem Make History.”
When I reach the end of my own life, I want my daughters to talk about the time I sawed a hole in the side of the house. Brick dust spraying all directions. I want them to talk about hauling crazy things in a small car, cross country trips with rolled down windows, loud music, and one foot out the right window. Times trying to find the right road to discover just how fast a Jag can go. If the best thing anyone can say at the end of my life is that I was “modest and well-behaved” .. Then it will have been a life poorly lived.
I want my daughters to be defined by more than modesty and virginity. Those are important things .. But NOT the most important. Not even on the top ten list.
A fantastic article. The comments are an embarrassment. Part of me wants a moratorium on ALL modesty talk. Since that’s probably not happening, I’m glad to see this article. (Don’t recommend reading the comments.) Reading the comments was an embarrassment. SMH. After reading the last three posts, I decided to read the comments first. I’m not sure I’m in the same church but whatever. I’ll get around to the article tomorrow. I commented on the article itself this AM but was upset with so many of the comments saying the author was wrong. I don’t think this is going to be fixed from grass roots while leadership keeps preaching what they are. Made me rather bummed like nothing is going to change. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’ve mentioned this in other posts about Modesty, I was in my Senior year at college when I joined the church. Our little ward was building the final phases on the chapel & I volunteered to help with the roof.
I was 25, tanned & in reasonable shape. It was a very hot day & I took my shirt off. Someone complained & the Bishop
had a talk with me about modesty. I was surprised but not offended about it. It taught me that modesty (as taught by the church)
applied to men as well as women. My example is probably a rare occurrence.
It is reasonable to me that religious organizations have standards of modesty that we should adhere to.
We went to another church for a wedding last week. The dress standards were a lot different. Almost to the point of distraction.
amateurparent wrote:“an attitude of propriety and decency in dress, grooming, language, and behavior. If we are modest, we do not draw undue attention to ourselves”
I want my daughters to be immodest. I want them to have political ideas that create real change. I want them to set goals that exceed their grasp. I want them to stand out. I want them to pursue objectives and accomplish tasks that change society for the better.
If their slip shows while they are accomplishing such heady tasks, I don’t care. I am hoping my daughters can achieve an obscene level of success.
What is that old phrase .. Ah yes .. “Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History.”
When I reach the end of my own life, I want my daughters to talk about the time I sawed a hole in the side of the house. Brick dust spraying all directions. I want them to talk about hauling crazy things in a small car, cross country trips with rolled down windows, loud music, and one foot out the right window. Times trying to find the right road to discover just how fast a Jag can go. If the best thing anyone can say at the end of my life is that I was “modest and well-behaved” .. Then it will have been a life poorly lived.
I want my daughters to be defined by more than modesty and virginity. Those are important things .. But NOT the most important. Not even on the top ten list.
Hitting the LIKE button on this message. Bravo
I am with you Lookinghard Quote:I commented on the article itself this AM but was upset with so many of the comments saying the author was wrong. I don’t think this is going to be fixed from grass roots while leadership keeps preaching what they are. Made me rather bummed like nothing is going to change.
I had posted the article when only 2 comments existed. Church is really beginning to stick in my craw right now.
Excellent. The older generations, especially, will struggle to understand and accept this, but the younger ones get it, generally speaking, much better.
I loved the article. Thanks for sharing. 🙂 amateurparent wrote:I want my daughters to be immodest. I want them to have political ideas that create real change. I want them to set goals that exceed their grasp. I want them to stand out. I want them to pursue objectives and accomplish tasks that change society for the better.
If their slip shows while they are accomplishing such heady tasks, I don’t care. I am hoping my daughters can achieve an obscene level of success.
What is that old phrase .. Ah yes .. “Well Behaved Women Seldem Make History.”
I have been reading a book about the acquistion of power within moral limits. One of the principles is non-conformity. It seems that non-conformists acquire power that leads to lasting change. I had that thought when I read your post about how you want your daughters to do those things that are risky, put you in the epicenter of life, etcetera….
OK, I read the article. I am probably going against prevailing thought about modesty here on STayLDS, but these are my thoughts. 1. I don’t agree with the idea that we should be “expanding of the meaning of the term modesty” to include a lot of other items. It’s traditional meaning in LDS culture is dressing in a way that covers the human body. To start expanding the meaning doesn’t address the problem of overemphasis of modesty in women. Best to stick with the meaning and use the common understanding of the term to address the problems LDS culture have created with it.
2. When I was young, I wanted to control my thoughts as a young adult, and found it extremely distracting when women didn’t cover up. Also, when men didn’t cover up — as I often compared myself to these buff, muscular guys, even though I was relatively attractive myself.
I appreciated it when people did cover up. This
doesn’tmean THEY (particularly women) were responsible for my thoughts. It doesn’t mean they if I acted on the desires their exposed bodies triggered, that it was their fault. But I will say this — I appreciated it when they covered up so I didn’t have to be so distracted and so full of self-loathing afterwards. 3. I agree, however, with much of the other things in the article though. And I do think there is an overemphasis on the concept, particularly for women. I also agree with balanced discussion, and that men should also dress in ways that are not overly provocative.
4. Another problem that amplifies the overzealous emphasis on modesty is the LDS taboo on sex, sexual thoughts, etcetera. SWK’s Miracle of Forgiveness epitomized it (thank goodness that book is going out of print). That emphasis seems to spill over into modesty discussion making modesty more of an issue than it may have to be. If that book hadn’t induced such self-loathing for sexual thoughts when I was YA, the provocative dresign of women wouldn’t have been as much as a problem for me. I was constantly berating myself for being so sexual in my thinking when looking back, it wasn’t all that bad.
Anyway, my thoughts…
Quote:SilentDawning wrote: I appreciated it when they covered up so I didn’t have to be so distracted and so full of self-loathing afterwards.
Funny .. I always thought men appreciated the view, and no self-loathing would or should be involved.
When I was a teenage, Brazilian men all wore very tight Speedo swim suits. It was very obvious when someone was especially happy to see me. It was just considered part of being human and no one made a big deal about it.
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