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This caught my eye. I think it is interesting since we do encourage staying and working within the system. Yet I am a little disturbed by a couple of the comments.
I don’t read comment threads on Utah newspaper articles. Ever. *full-body shiver of dread* I agree with Ray on what he said but would add further I really don’t read comments on articles every. The tend to be very extreme and opinionated while stating those opinions as facts. Try to pay comments no mind would be my recommendation. They are rarely productive. Actually there are some interesting comments related to this particular article. One suggests that the LDS church has become “feminized”. I can see where they are coming from. Anglicanism is highly feminized these days, it doesn’t appeal to men with different emotional buttons.
It also does not appeal to women with different emotional ‘buttons’. That comment in the article thread was so sexist it made my skin crawl. I don’t think it is women taking over and inflicting their feminine ways of feeling the spirit onto the mass culture on the church. I am semi-young, but I see a huge push to BE that woman. The underlying culture that I feel is that for a woman to be viewed as spiritual and a good ‘relief society’ woman she needs to bake and have table cloths and lace ect. That comment really boiled my blood so to speak because it assumes all women are ignorant, emotionally based and don’t like to get into deep doctrine. Sorry afterall-I think that was off topic a little. I’m not sure what the overall theme of the conference really was, but from this article all I can extrapolate is that we have many good and faithful women who stayed strong despite their obvious oppression. I’m not sure if that is something that should be praised or pitied.
Quote:It also does not appeal to women with different emotional ‘buttons’. That comment in the article thread was so sexist it made my skin crawl.
Okay, I appreciate that, not everyone wants a white wedding and fifty kids… but from my POV as a man whose femininity is pretty weak in most regards, I could relate to it. We’re practically required to cry when giving a testimony. I don’t do that. It’s not a macho thing, it’s just not how I’m built. I don’t go in for public displays of emotion.
That said, I have heard some better stuff come out of the church regarding women, about inner beauty (not following magazine covers), self-respect and also trying to get women to spend wisely, rather than encouraging them to go in for “retail therapy”. All of these I think are important in an age when the mass media is attacking women’s insecurities big time.
I guess my point in saying women with different emotional buttons is that not all women are emotional when bearing their testimony. If you feel the cultural pressure to cry, imagine how much more women feel it. I agree that the church is making an effort to do good things for its women, but from my perspective, the messages seem a little mixed.
I’ve never understood the crying thing. I mean if you’re so happy about the church and Jesus, why are you crying? I relate crying to extreme pain and upset, not to happiness. And I don’t think the mass media thing can be emphasized enough. It is driving women straight into eating disorders, depression etc, in itself. The church doesn’t help when it serves up carbohydrate-sozzled stodge at every ward meal, or when it publishes pictures in Ensign of nicey nicey looking people.
Old-Timer wrote:I don’t read comment threads on Utah newspaper articles. Ever. *full-body shiver of dread*
+1The feminization of Church is a real concern for a lot of men. I read this book a few years ago, and it made a lot of sense to me: http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Heart-Discovering-Secret-Mans/dp/0785268839 That book sounds cool. It sounds like there are more men than I know who can relate to what a lot of women go through. Just like church going men are instructed to be the nice guy, church going women are instructed to be passive, humble, long suffering, and well anything but head strong and powerful. I can only truly speak for myself, but what this guy was talking about-danger, adventure, passion in an attempt to become godlike-I feel that lacking in what women’s Christian roles are as well. Maybe you should start a group of masculinists
I’ve read the book Wild at Heartand it was great. I think of myself as something of a masculist, a man who would like to reclaim masculinity and men from oppression by imperialistic feminists who would like to replace the patriarchy with a matriarchy. OK, maybe that was a little political, but men aren’t men anymore, and I know for a fact that most of my single guy friends bore single women to tears. Church culture is terrible at training boys to be men- it’s much more interested in teaching boys to be submissive, conforming, obedient, acquiescent, sanitized, hairless (literally- we must shave, right?), and cautious. I could go on for a long time on this topic, but I’ll stop there. Something I’ve wondered though- the feminist critique is pretty hard on the Mormon “benevolent patriarchy.” But if the Church offers a much better deal to men than to women, why are men leaving the Church in larger numbers than women?
Interesting discussion. I do agree that there is general change in our culture at large not just in the church, good and bad. Inquiring Mind stated that he feels that the church is teaching its men to be weak and submissive, ok, I guess I don’t see that other than the church trying to get ALL its members to conform to the church’s desires and standards. I do not want to say that men are not stunted in their natural personalities within the church, but I do not see specific changes other than more of an emphasis on being equal in your marriage and making decisions together. If that is “feminizing ” the church I’ll take it. My uncle is a very staunch Christian who quotes the bible as to why he makes every decision in his family. It is hilarious because his wife is a VP of a major international bank yet at home she is absolutely submissive and as quite as a mouse since according to her,”women are more gullible than men, look at eve and the serpent.” Perhaps that is were some lds men want to get back to. I may be misinformed but I do not see the church feminizing its men. If anything the priesthood gives a very public and exclusive image to the men of the church. I am glad that the priesthood allows men the ability to be part of something exclusive and bigger than themselves spirituality. Also I have to say that if men are feeling that they are suddenly being taught to be submissive, welcome to the club. A lds girl/women is told from day one that her worth is pretty much limited to how she can serve others. I can not begin to count the number of lessons I’ve been taught that a good lds woman will serve others always. A career or individual path is never discussed or taught. It is ingrained that we will marry a return missionary, have children and then serve them and our ward for the rest of our lives. There is very little emphasis on the indvidual lds woman other than making sure she takes care of herself so she can take care of everyone else.
As far as men not being men anymore, you are correct. Many men have lost the ability to do the things that defined a “man”. Men don’t know how to fix cars/hunt/construction etc, I don’t see how that is feminist women’s fault, wouldn’t that be other men who didn’t teach you those things? Also men use to be able to get into a physical fight to resolve issues, can’t do that anymore because you will be arrested and sued, again not sure how that’s women’s fault. I do agree that boys should be allowed to be rough and tumble and not sit still in class for 8 hours. I think they should know how to handle fights and when to show restraint. Again, things other men need to teach boys, not women. As far as men leaving the church more than women, I would say that women find the potential risk of the eternal salvation of their children to be a huge factor as to why they stay.
Oh and I forgot to add…you want to talk about submissive and weak? Try having your underwear determined and designed by the opposite sex without any of your input and then link it to your eternal salvation. Just saying. I have been too busy to even get online, so am back for a few minutes. It just seems to me that we can surely get to some point of truly valuing women and men’s talents and gifts to do the Lord’s work as equal followers of Jesus Christ. Taking the women holding the priesthood out of the equation (many women in the church truly are not concerned with that) the church still has a ways to go in truly valuing the women’s opinions and input. It is inconsistent across the board depending on local leaders. I am all for the church finding ways to allow some decision making authority for women to truly be there. I am not sure how that leads to feminizing the church or taking anything away from the men. Hopefully, the majority of men are used to having an equal relationship with their wives in their homes, not to mention with female coworkers in the workplace. Am I too idealistic?
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