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SilentDawning wrote:
OK, maybe I’m being oversensitive, maybe I’m on point, but I’m seeing patterns.
First is the way the church gets between converts and their non-member families over temple marriage.
Second, the fact that Roy’s Bishop didn’t want a parent present during his son’s baptismal interview.
Third, Bpric members have pumped my wife for information about me when my commitment waned. She knew I didn’t want anything shared (I was express about that), but she spilled the beans anyway. And further the Bpric member told a story about how when he was not active, his wife got him active by threatening to divorce him if he didn’t!
Third, the gay couple/child disavowal policy.
Fourth, the fact that my daughter had an interview with our Bishop yesterday. Before the interview I indicated she wasn’t to talk about family situation, habits, or ideas as they related to the church — only her own situation. They should check with us if they want answers to any questions about parental attitudes or habits directly. My daughter comes home and tells me she didn’t talk about our family, just how things were going in her life.
….
Silent,..I am going to piggy back off your post here,…because I had something horrible happen. I was excommunicated, but how that was handled was destructive to me.
I’ve not hid my situation from this group while preserving my own anonymity on this forum. However, during that entire proceeding, that “court of love”, I was not consulted about the court process. Against my wishes, my then wife was invited to the proceedings, and I was not given a choice. The SP made it clear he was in charge, he was going to call ALL the shots, and that was that. So, I sat there with 16 other men in the room, and my wife–while my dirty laundry was aired.
The invite to her was extended just before the court started. I didn’t want her there, and she came against my wishes. Then when the SP saw her, he invited her in and looked at me in a way to say: “Don’t say a word!”
I feel immense anger toward this man because he did that. Rather than make a big scene to further alienate myself and feel worse, I was put in my place and I sucked it up and went forward.
I had the option of not attending. I wish I didn’t. Nothing good came from me attending that proceeding…nothing at all.
When it comes to church business, I’ve learned something the hard way, but freeing as well. The only power the LDS church has over me is what I gave them. I had the option of leaving long before this court. I had the option of not attending that court. I have the option of walking away. The church has used fear to keep me in line–do this or you will go to hell–and I have given them power because part of me has believed that.
Shame is and always will be Satan’s plan to control people. When the church doesn’t listen, when they use shame to control, and when they have formal statements about how they will NEVER apologize,…well, shame on them for that. Shame on them for using satan’s plan to try to accomplish God’s purpose.
I don’t think leaders listen much,..not just the Q15 folks, but also many who are in the lower levels.
I am sorry for what you experienced and endured. Sadly I think others have had similar terrible experiences. It is somewhat often said in the church that Satan only has the power over us that we give him. Few of us recognize that the same is true of the church/church leaders.
Peace, my brother.
So sorry. I have seen you (via some other sites) really struggle for years – and I have sympathy as you had a much worse situation in your marriage. You did better / held out longer than I would have. I am sorry for that terrible experience Rob. I agree that the system and the culture does not promote a lot of listening on the behalf of our leaders. The Lord calls a leader – we then have the choice to sustain him to our benefit or reject him and cut ourselves of from the kingdom of God. Not much room for listening.
Specifically about your disciplinary court – did you know that you were going to be exed? If so, was there any purpose to being present? Maybe brownie points for rebaptism at some later date?
Again, I am sorry.
Roy wrote:
Specifically about your disciplinary court – did you know that you were going to be exed? If so, was there any purpose to being present? Maybe brownie points for rebaptism at some later date?
I knew I was gunna be exed. I attended the court because I wanted to have an open doorway in my future if I chose to pass through. That is how I saw it at the time. I have no reason at this point to believe anything good came from my attendance. All I did was took my licking…and stoically dealt with it.
Rob4Hope wrote:Roy wrote:
Specifically about your disciplinary court – did you know that you were going to be exed? If so, was there any purpose to being present? Maybe brownie points for rebaptism at some later date?
I knew I was gunna be exed. I attended the court because I wanted to have an open doorway in my future if I chose to pass through. That is how I saw it at the time. I have no reason at this point to believe anything good came from my attendance. All I did was took my licking…and stoically dealt with it.
Today is my 2 year anniversary for being exed so I’m kind of just numb a bit.I think I will throw care to the wind and drink a coffee
…
((Snotty grin over here…sorry…well, maybe not…))
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Thanks for sharing Rob. I intellectually recognize the need for an organization to be able to distance itself from or even formally sever the relationship with individuals from time to time but I do not like how this was handled.
Hugs from a fellow broken traveler. You are always welcome to have a seat by my little fire.
Rob4Hope wrote:I’ve not hid my situation from this group while preserving my own anonymity on this forum. However, during that entire proceeding, that “court of love”, I was not consulted about the court process. Against my wishes, my then wife was invited to the proceedings, and I was not given a choice. The SP made it clear he was in charge, he was going to call ALL the shots, and that was that. So, I sat there with 16 other men in the room, and my wife–while my dirty laundry was aired.
The invite to her was extended just before the court started. I didn’t want her there, and she came against my wishes. Then when the SP saw her, he invited her in and looked at me in a way to say: “Don’t say a word!”
I feel immense anger toward this man because he did that. Rather than make a big scene to further alienate myself and feel worse, I was put in my place and I sucked it up and went forward.
I had the option of not attending. I wish I didn’t. Nothing good came from me attending that proceeding…nothing at all.
When it comes to church business, I’ve learned something the hard way, but freeing as well. The only power the LDS church has over me is what I gave them. I had the option of leaving long before this court. I had the option of not attending that court. I have the option of walking away. The church has used fear to keep me in line–do this or you will go to hell–and I have given them power because part of me has believed that.
Shame is and always will be Satan’s plan to control people. When the church doesn’t listen, when they use shame to control, and when they have formal statements about how they will NEVER apologize,…well, shame on them for that. Shame on them for using satan’s plan to try to accomplish God’s purpose.
I don’t think leaders listen much,..not just the Q15 folks, but also many who are in the lower levels.
I agree with all of this. I see how you might feel violated through this process. I certainly have through the experiences I shared in your opening post. Also, when I explained to my daughter that loyalty to family should come first, she got stony faced and reasserted she was only following the advice of your priesthood leader. The church has more “authority” (if that’s the right word) than I do.
The point you made was something I realized a long time ago — in most circumstances, they only have as much power as we give them. If we refuse a calling, they can do nothing. If we don’t give enough of our time and talents, they can do nothing to force us. But they CAN withold ordinances, recommends, callings, and other things. But those things only matter if you WANT them.
I have said this before, but I have learned that the world has need of us in so many contexts outside of the church — and we can do more good, sometimes even faster, than we can within the LDS church. Being barred from McDonald’s means very little when there are 20 other restaurants willing to admit us. And I see the world as a massive smorgasbord of service opporunities now that makes the church of lesser importance.
Not to say I don’t value the ways it has blessed my life, but it isn’t everything, and you are right, so long as we are not flagrantly challenging their authority or behaving in ways that make them exercise their punitive authority, there is not a lot they can do.
I like SDs advice on perspective. The church is not all there is in life. One can find peace and self-actualization outside of church. Billions do it. Heber13 wrote:I like SDs advice on perspective. The church is not all there is in life. One can find peace and self-actualization outside of church. Billions do it.
I have and continue to discover this myself. If anything, my over-involvement in the church has cloistered my life more than it should have. Love that is bound inside LDS walls doesn’t serve all who could be served; and when I have withheld love because I felt I was supposed to (they weren’t LDS after all,..and they smoked or drank [or whatever]), I missed a chance to help.
My eyes have been opened in ways I had never considered.
Rob4Hope wrote:My eyes have been opened in ways I had never considered.
Perhaps that is what God is trying to teach you. Don’t be attached so much to the church and what others tell you about yourself that you can’t see yourself truly as you are. Detach. Find peace. God knows your heart.
If God wanted us all to fit the mold, he would have cloned us. It is us humans that want a mold…so we feel better about how we fit. But that is not truly how God created us individually.
Be patient. It is a journey. Good things ahead!
Rob4Hope wrote:My eyes have been opened in ways I had never considered.
Yes. I feel the same way. I have learned that I have some talents I didn’t know existed. Church service seems limiting and hollow now. They want me not to “seek after position” when my personal growth demands more responsibility. They want me to serve in callings for which I have no passion, out of a sense of duty. Their objective is to get me working for the church again — and that is their definition of success for me.
I feel as though my disillusionment with the church has been a lot like eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. I had to act in ways that were contrary to published law (by not being active) (eating from the tree) and it has caused hardship, and I have to some extent been cast out (not accepted for my unorthodox beliefs), but I am wiser and I think the future is much brighter.
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