Looking and dissecting LDS dating red flags?

[Anonymous]

One last thought – everyone can only do so much about their spouse. Yes it’s good to try to be selective, to look for common ground and dreams, but I have been married nearly 30 years and a lot happens in everyone’s marriage and what began as a couple skipping down the road of life together can often hit huge walls of frustration. Just look how many books on marriage you can find in a bookstore. None of them even address faith crisis or religion directly – it’s lots of other stuff.

Yes – be honest with what you desire, seek with courtesy her truth as well as yours.

Remember it is a long road with unexpected twists and turns. In my life alone I have seen plenty of marriages strained beyond expectation, health issues, unemployment, criminal activity, infertility, fertility, extended family, death etc.

If your looking for perfect you won’t find it, you can only dictate so much.

[Anonymous]

When I was single and an LDS guy started asking about what I wanted in a spouse within a couple dates, I thought it was time to move on. It was a red flag that he wasn’t interested in “me”. He was looking for a commodity — the typical LDS girl. He was in the marriage market and looking for someone who was “acceptable” and met the criteria of his list.

I wanted someone who was in love with ME. I found him. He didn’t ask me about what I wanted in a spouse. We just dated until we decided we couldn’t stand to ever be apart. He is my best friend, my best lover, my best everything.

Please don’t settle for less. There is nothing better than a good marriage, and nothing worse than a bad one.

I am concerned that you will get the same answer each time you ask LDS girls about what they want in a spouse. When an LDS guy asks the questions you are asking, the is a set dialogue exchange that results. You are asking the typical LDS question. You are going to get the typical LDS answer. Neither party is going to be honest in that exchange.

Maybe ask a girl right after SM to go visit Dear Brother Winchell with you — Instead of attending Sunday School. (Winchell’s always has the best donuts.). Or maybe Dear Brother Enstein for bagels ..

[Anonymous]

amateurparent wrote:

When I was single and an LDS guy started asking about what I wanted in a spouse within a couple dates, I thought it was time to move on. It was a red flag that he wasn’t interested in “me”. He was looking for a commodity — the typical LDS girl. He was in the marriage market and looking for someone who was “acceptable” and met the criteria of his list.

I wanted someone who was in love with ME. I found him. He didn’t ask me about what I wanted in a spouse. We just dated until we decided we couldn’t stand to ever be apart. He is my best friend, my best lover, my best everything.

Please don’t settle for less. There is nothing better than a good marriage, and nothing worse than a bad one.

I am concerned that you will get the same answer each time you ask LDS girls about what they want in a spouse. When an LDS guy asks the questions you are asking, the is a set dialogue exchange that results. You are asking the typical LDS question. You are going to get the typical LDS answer. Neither party is going to be honest in that exchange.

Maybe ask a girl right after SM to go visit Dear Brother Winchell with you — Instead of attending Sunday School. (Winchell’s always has the best donuts.). Or maybe Dear Brother Enstein for bagels ..

Thank you for your input.

I think you’re right with straight out asking to a degree. People by their nature will be dishonest whether they are unaware of it or not (mostly likely they are unaware of it).

My list is just a board set of values.

1. Honesty

2. Empathy

3. Responsibility (this one might be to vague, still figuring it out)

I would add that on top I how feel around them. That would be the chemistry and compatibility part. I think this small list keep me away from being too picky.

I agree with you but at some point I just need to be VERY clear where their and my values actually lie. I’m not a mind reader. Mind reading is bad for relationships. There needs to be some kind oral agreement that our values align. If they feel the need to dishonest about their values… well… they already breached #1 on my list.

[Anonymous]

mczee wrote:

People by their nature will be dishonest whether they are unaware of it or not (mostly likely they are unaware of it).

It’s a roll of the dice. I don’t really think of it in terms of honesty or dishonesty. I’ll explain:

amateurparent wrote:

I am concerned that you will get the same answer each time you ask LDS girls about what they want in a spouse. When an LDS guy asks the questions you are asking, the is a set dialogue exchange that results. You are asking the typical LDS question. You are going to get the typical LDS answer. Neither party is going to be honest in that exchange.

Yeah, it’s one person telling the other what they think they want to hear. It’s hard to make a connection like that. It’s not a person being dishonest, it’s just not an honest (maybe genuine is the right word) exchange.

mczee wrote:

My list is just a board set of values.

1. Honesty

2. Empathy

3. Responsibility (this one might be to vague, still figuring it out)

That’s a good list and it’s a list that can’t be checked off by asking a question or two (Are you honest? Of course.). Those traits have to be observed over time.

Don’t over think things, let things progress naturally.

[Anonymous]

I gotta chime in here. I’m very into the dating scene…49, divorced, living in SLC, and dating.

I choose to be honest and vulnerable up front because I am sick of the lies and the extremes.

In SLC, women I know and have asked say men fall into 2 caregories….swinger types or Peter priesthood. Not many in the middle.

Several women WANT a somewhat good LDS man who.has a wild streak. The idea of Peter priesthood is detestable at this.point in their life because they want to experience life. They don’t want to get exed, but being in the mile high club and such appeals.

I need a woman who is in FC herself. Because if I go back to church, I need her support. If I dont, I need her support.

Suprisingly I have found women who want and need the same from me.

And I think I found one who is darling. And for some strange reason, she likes me….shucks….

My advice is don’t settle…. find someone who is in a similar place…then you both have empathy for each other.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[Anonymous]

Rob4Hope wrote:

And I think I found one who is darling. And for some strange reason, she likes me….shucks….

YEAH!!! you made my day. Best of luck Rob!!!

[Anonymous]

LH,…you and me go way back don’t we.

And dating is a challenge. There are women players as well…and Molly mormons. It goes both ways.

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[Anonymous]

You are making me what to give another go at fixing my marriage.

[Anonymous]

Because mormons won’t approve of living together for years to get to know each other before marrying…it seems our fate is to always look for some signs the person can be who we hope we want…and after marriage work through the differences as we learn about them. I think that is true of women and men. I don’t think it is so shallow women have a list of who they are looking for.

I’m not sure how deep you can get in a quick courtship and brief engagement in order to stay worthy to go to the temple.

I’m also not so sure that prolonging things helps you know EVERYTHING about the other person. The relationship should be healthy enough to learn more about each other while you express needs, find how to meet the other person’s needs, and enjoy the ride.

I think HG’s comments are good…probably most haven’t considered thinking deeply about it or what they would compromise without getting spooked what they are are being asked about.

Perhaps discussions about political views can help you see their personality on how open minded or flexible they are, before going right to the church, priesthood, or temple topics.

Just a thought.

But I like how you are able to have the conversations and see how they respond to you. Doing things your way will help you see who likes your way of doing things. You want someone who likes the way you do things. Mormon women do not all fit in one box of how they see things, for sure.

[Anonymous]

Rob4Hope wrote:

And dating is a challenge. There are women players as well…and Molly mormons. It goes both ways.

I’d agree with that. Dating is quite the …what word am I looking for… experience.

I have stories from my post-divorce days. I’ll spare you all the details…but phew…what a time that was. Yikes. I had some fun but I’m sure glad I’m past that phase.

But I found the perfect mormon woman. If I was Peter Priesthood…she would have dropped me. If I was a player…she would have had no patience for me. She was goldilocks…and I was juuuuuust right for her. We are perfect for each other….and yes…we make everyone around us puke we are in love. :sick:

[Anonymous]

I wanted to post one more thing here, but I confess I think I am going to really anger a few. ((Sorry in advance))

I am a single male, living in SLC Utah, and I know exactly what I want going forward:

1. Spiritual harmony. This doesn’t mean we are necessarily on the same page spiritually (with my FC issues, my page can change daily!). It does mean, however, there is support and willingness to respect each other’s beliefs.

2. Emotional depth. I want someone who can share deep emotional intimacy with me: talking about everything, being able to be safe with the delicate and tender things, etc. This also includes someone who can be my best friend, can fight with me and kick my a$$ when I need it, and who wont topple if I lean on them a little, and vice versa. I need someone who is emotionally compatible, and willing to go to the deep places.

3. Physical affection. This includes a good amount of hand holding all the way up to yummy sex. I need someone who is not only willing to be sexual with me often and regularly, but requires it herself.

All of these are in one way or another deal breakers: a weakness or loss in one area is enough for me to move on.

There are 2 remaining elements: financial sense, and physical self care.

Financial sense: I don’t want to be attached to a spend-thrift who is off the chart anal about it. But, I don’t want to come home to a $20,000 CC bill either! (and, I have a friend who ended up having that happen multiple times.)

Physical self care: (this is what might make people angry). I am sick and tired of the line: “I want someone to just love me for me!”…when they are carrying 200 extra lbs. Or,…someone who didn’t take a bath, or has neglected their teeth for so long they are falling out.

I am not perfect–my hair is falling out and I HATE IT–but I am doing my best and working it: I attend the gym regularly, I can run a mile RIGHT NOW if I wanted, and I work to keep myself groomed and clean/healthy. I expect someone who I attach to doing the same.

The biggest challenge I have run into so far with the online dating thing (which is how it seems to be done now-a-days, except for the occasional dance or setup) is people misrepresenting themselves.

So, there it is. And,…let the record show, I have had soooo many friends? tell me: “Oh, you are so picky,…you will never find anyone like this!”…and I don’t care. I’ve been married and now divorced, and I know what it feels like to be in a marriage that didn’t work. I would rather be alone then go down that pathway again. So, I will be as picky as I dang well please.

[Anonymous]

Rob4Hope wrote:

I’ve been married and now divorced, and I know what it feels like to be in a marriage that didn’t work. I would rather be alone then go down that pathway again. So, I will be as picky as I dang well please.

No. Marriage will fix you. Marriage fixes EVERYTHING. Why can’t you just get married? You are too picky! Just trust it will work out. /s

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this. There is this girl I hang out with a lot but we mutually aren’t interested in each other. We get along with each other REALLY well. But we have no chemistry what so ever. No spark what so ever. Over the last couple months I get told by other YSAs “Why are you not dating? You guys would be perfect for each other! I don’t get why you guys aren’t dating.” The thing is that they are completely serious and dismiss me when I say we are mutually not attracted to each other at all. It doesn’t drive me nuts, it’s just a minor annoyance in my life. I’m more fascinated that they think they better than me how the relationship will play out without understanding one thing.

[Anonymous]

mczee wrote:

Rob4Hope wrote:

I’ve been married and now divorced, and I know what it feels like to be in a marriage that didn’t work. I would rather be alone then go down that pathway again. So, I will be as picky as I dang well please.

No. Marriage will fix you. Marriage fixes EVERYTHING. Why can’t you just get married? You are too picky! Just trust it will work out. /s

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this. There is this girl I hang out with a lot but we mutually aren’t interested in each other. We get along with each other REALLY well. But we have no chemistry what so ever. No spark what so ever. Over the last couple months I get told by other YSAs “Why are you not dating? You guys would be perfect for each other! I don’t get why you guys aren’t dating.” The thing is that they are completely serious and dismiss me when I say we are mutually not attracted to each other at all. It doesn’t drive me nuts, it’s just a minor annoyance in my life. I’m more fascinated that they think they better than me how the relationship will play out without understanding one thing.

I’m on the same page as you are.

I’ve been told over and over: “all you need in marriage is Love”. This is false, and all it takes is a single example that blows it apart.

If all that is needed is love, then why don’t we take a VERY gay man, and a VERY gay woman, who are both committed to living the Gospel, and have all kinds of love, and marry them off. I can guarantee they will be less then happy in SEVERAL areas of their marriage….and this is where its gets tricky and muddy. The answers then come along of just putting your spouses needs above your own, and so forth.

I am a heterosexual male. The idea of having sexual relations with another male is repulsive to me…icky! To say that love is all you need, and then expect someone to do that in a marriage where physical compatibility is non-existent, is cruel. Love is NOT enough. Getting along is NOT enough. And, this example should make that very clear. This example spills over into the LGBT area as well, where for years the policy was to “force yourself” (if you were a gay man) into a heterosexual marriage. And, things have swung all the way back into forcing yourself, if you are gay into a life of celibacy. And, in our case as single people, into a life of celibacy until marriage again.

So, I hear you mate. I hear when you say there is no chemistry.

Everyone here knows I believe the LDS faith has a general problem with the “pleasure” principle. We talk of love and we often believe it is sufficient; however, when pleasure is introduced, it makes things less clear. Marriage, among other things, is about pleasure. Its about fun. Its about extacy. Its even about good old lusty sex.

When I hear individuals discount those things in favor of a sense of religious piety, and especially when I hear religious organizations either directly or in a more subtle and sneaky way discount those things, I turn my ears off instantly. Some of that crap is what got me into trouble in the first place. I will not make the same mistakes again in my next relationship.

My only advice at this point (which I am taking myself), is don’t settle. Hold out for someone who is really compatible with you. I would rather be alone than make another mistake and have a relationship held together by reading scriptures, saying prayers, attending meetings, paying tithing, giving services,…..blah blah blah…..(and marriage counseling that bankrupts me)….

[Anonymous]

amateurparent wrote:

When I was single and an LDS guy started asking about what I wanted in a spouse within a couple dates, I thought it was time to move on. It was a red flag that he wasn’t interested in “me”.

Or maybe he was very interested in you and wanted to see if he had any “deal breakers” before he let himself get more attached. I’ve certainly saved myself both heartache and expense by finding out a woman wouldn’t consider me early on. (Converted at 35, so not a RM, did a lot of things before joining the Church that apparently the Savior can let go of but women can’t, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I have no advice. But your thread does make me quite happy that I have been married for a long time and don’t have to play the dating game anymore.

Seriously though, this is a tough one. When my wife and I met, we were both happy TBMs and were very excited to get married in the temple, pay tithing, and follow all the rules. We have changed a little over time, and are in a different place now.

That is actually very important to understand. People change. Perhaps the most important thing to understand would be that you can both accept the other if either one of you changes.

I remember before getting married and people would tell me that my priorities should be:

1) God

2) spouse

3) church

I don’t see it that way now. I put my wife at the very top. She is the most important person in the world to me. If you can find someone that looks at you that way, and you look at her that way, then I think you’ll be in good shape.

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