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Hi all, I haven’t introduced myself formally yet, but I am anxious to get some advice. I will keep my background brief.
I’m probably a lot like many of you. 36, married, 4 kids, busy, serving, happily LDS up until roughly 10 years ago. Issues with “feeling the spirit” were the first things making me doubt my faith. Also issues in B of M, polygamy, and a couple others. I told my husband about 5 years ago about my concerns. It terrified him so much I decided never to bring it up again. I would just “suspend judgement” of spiritual things and coast. It has worked up until now. But I have had enough. I have read enough. I am certain that the church is not the truth it claims to be.
So. How can I talk to him about this? I just can’t go back. I am sick about it. I am overwhelmed with anxiety. Knowing what I know I simply cannot continue teaching at church or allow my children to be taught. Obviously I should not lay it all on my sweetheart this heavily, but I don’t know what to do. (He is gone this weekend and I am calling in sick–I am primary president.)
I hope this is appropriate for this audience. I know many here want to “stay Mormon” where I am finding it is time for me to leave, the staying part isn’t working anymore. If another forum is more appropriate, I understand and would be fine being pointed in the right direction.
Thanks so much, and best to all of you, I feel your struggles and pain,
Whiterapids
Welcome. I hope we can be of assistance. You are right, many of us have been in your situation. You are also wise in not dumping it all on your husband at once – that usually doesn’t go over very well. As someone who mishandled it with my wife, I’m not sure I’m the best one to give advice except that I learned how not to do it. :problem: The real issue is I’m not sure there is a good way to do it. You attempted once and were met with what you saw as an unfavorable response, again that is not unusual. I’d say take it slow, perhaps picking a good time and sharing one thing that is troubling you and why – but doing so calmly and without malice toward the church or its leaders. Also focus on what you do believe. Something along the lines of “I’m not sure the Book of Mormon is true” and tell him why you feel that way, but also tell him what you like about the BoM (it’s not evil, after all). Not knowing either of you, and not being a professional counselor, I don’t know how this will work.FWIW, in my own situation we don’t talk about it, either. My wife knows I have doubts and questions but only knows minor details. On the other hand, she also knows I believe in God and Jesus Christ and that we should love our neighbors. She knows I’m the same good husband and father I have always been, and likewise the same good person I have always been. I think that is important for the relationship.
Finally, our mission here is, as the name implies, to help people StayLDS. I’m sad you feel like you need to separate yourself from the church and I recognize the church doesn’t work for everyone. In your brief introduction you don’t really seem to be one for whom it totally doesn’t work. Focus on what you do believe, even if those things are not directly related to LDS-only doctrine or beliefs. We are Christian, and at the most basic level the church does believe and teach basic Christian doctrine. I’d encourage you to read through some threads here and see how other people cope. Most of all, don’t make any rash decisions – I know you’ve been at it a long time, so you know it’s all still going to be there tomorrow, but sometimes things look a lot different in the new light of tomorrow.
whiterapids wrote:I hope this is appropriate for this audience.
It sure is! I think the situation you describe is probably
thehardest thing that someone faces as a part of a faith crisis/transition. Maybe you’ve seen the thread on this board about the article in the March Ensign,
Heads Up – Ensign Article on DoubtingIf anything I think the Ensign article reveals some of the fears that a more orthodox or black and white believer faces. They sometimes fear that doubt translates to debauchery. When we tell our spouses that we no longer believe some of the church’s claims they may worry that we are going to undergo some radical change… as if doubt is a cover to act on a latent desires to sin. When I told DW I assured her that I wasn’t going to change, that I am who I am.
I think DJ’s advice to take it slow and not dump is sound advice:
1) It gives our spouse time to grow into a better understanding of the evolving us.
2) A spouse can become overwhelmed and if they become overwhelmed one defense mechanism is to wall themselves off. They don’t want to hear anything else!
It sounds like you have been taking it slow, a 5 year gap of suffering in silence
😯 . That’s really tough and I understand your hesitance to broach the subject. Initiating this conversation with DW was the hardest thing I ever did.DJ’s advice to focus on the good is also sound advice. If we get into the mode where we only focus on the negatives our spouse may view that as a change in our nature to where we are only out to attack the church. This can be difficult to do because we feel our spouse already knows all the good stuff about church, what they don’t know is the “negative” things we’ve discovered and that’s what we feel we need to communicate, all the stuff they don’t already know about us.
Maybe something else that would help: make the discussion about you, not the church. I don’t know exactly how to go about that, it’s probably unique for everyone.
whiterapids wrote:Knowing what I know I simply cannot continue teaching at church or allow my children to be taught.
That’s another really difficult issue. Another bit of common advice is to separate the gospel from the church. We still probably want our children to learn values like honesty, service, charity, forgiving others, etc. That’s one way to help us remain engaged when our family members are more orthodox. I understand how those principles come with a
lotof baggage in church, but separating the gospel from the church can help us apply a personal filter on the things that get written in our hearts. Oh, another bit of advice, listen. The temptation is to be in pure talk mode because we’re the ones that have the great reveal. From the past experience that you related it sounds like you’re already a great listener and it’s also apparent that you love your husband deeply. The 5 years you spent sitting on your concerns is a large sacrifice that you’ve made and it really shows that you are concerned and that you love your husband. That’s a good foundation to build on.
I waited several years as well. By the time I had the talk with DW my primary concern was that I was ruining her dreams and I stated as much. I wanted her to know that her feelings were very important to me but at the same time I had to relate my feelings – get some things off my chest so to speak. Specifics from my experience may not help, everyone is different.
Sending you the best of wishes.
whiterapids, I think the number one mistake that people make when they want to “talk to my spouse about it” is that they don’t think first about what “it” is that they want to talk about. Then when the moment arrives, they cut loose in a barrage of attacks against the Church, which are also sideways attacks against the spouse. You need to stop and think for a moment about what you want to accomplish. Ask yourself what it is that you want your husband to know at the end of the conversation and what you think is an appropriate response… one that you would give if the roles were reversed.
I’ll tell you what worked for me, but your situation and mine are very individual, so you need to adapt to your circumstances.
I told my wife that I no longer believed. In the same conversation, I told her that I loved her and needed her just as much as ever, maybe more, that I supported her in the Church and would support our kids in Church too. She asked questions about why, and I explained that I didn’t want to get into the specifics. I said I wasn’t going to become anti or bitter and I wasn’t going to change the type of person I was. I wasn’t going to start drinking. I wasn’t going to get tattoos. I wasn’t going to start having affairs. I was going to do everything I could to ensure that we still could love each other and work together as we always had.
From that time forward, our partnership has been one of love and respect and support. She is still faithful in the Church and I support her because that is what she wants. Over the years, we’ve come to agree on some cultural things that should change and we work together to affect change, her from a position as a believer, and me from a position as a non-believer. Where doctrine or culture imposes something that I feel is negative on our children, such as gender roles, I speak up and we have a family conversation about it. Otherwise, I have my faith and she has hers and we’ve learned to accept each other.
I never ever ever talk about reasons why I believe the Church is not true.
In other words, my conversations with her from the start have been that I am no longer a believer and how we can make that arrangement work. I’m very careful to honor and respect her faith because it is the faith that we both shared.
My suggestion is that you first have that conversation, and then talk about your concerns about raising your children in the Church. But understand that he has just as much right to want to raise the kids in the Church as you have to want to take them out of it. You say you “know” why the church isn’t the “truth it claims to be.” I understand that perfectly well. But just realize that he “knows” why the Church IS what it claims to be. I suggest not turning it into a battle about who is right, but rather use your combined energies to try to figure out where to go from here.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is a safe forum for you to voice it. When you express it in writing…you can learn things about how you really feel, past some bottled up emotions, but not ignoring those emotions. My advice…focus on what you want for your family and relationships. Slow down a bit, and don’t make knee-jerk reactions (sometimes people will say “don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater”.)
One thing you can open your mind to, is that you don’t have to agree with some or all of the teachings. Allow yourself not to. You can choose if staying in the church or leaving is going to be best for you, but no matter what you choose…you want to have good influences in your life, things that help you feel peaceful, and happy, and fulfilled.
It may be a paradox to you…but the church may be teaching stuff you don’t believe in…but there is more to the church than that, especially for your family and children. Can you embrace paradox? The church is not true AND the church is true (depending on what truth your’e focusing on).
The best place to start is to focus on things you DO agree with your husband about. Charity. Service. Worth of souls. Unselfishness. These things are taught all the time in church. Then, just start to talk about things you doubt…like the literal history of the Book of Mormon, or whatever. Use good timing to talk about it, and use proper dosing that he can digest (don’t overdose him), and use tact (like respectful speech towards temples or prophets or things he holds sacred…you would do that to a friend who is any other religion, right? So do that with those close to you also).
Take the onion approach of going layer by layer on what you really don’t like, but keep a hold of what you really do like. And emphasize with your husband all the things you have in common with the beliefs. Keep it all in perspective. Break from black and white thinking of it is all true or all false. And see if that helps bring peace to how you feel about the church or not.
For many of us here…it has changed for us a lot over many many years. Join our discussions, talk to us bluntly and openly to see how others handle what you are going through…and try to do what you can to keep your personal relationships and family at the front of your desires in all you do.
One more bit of advice when wanting to talk to your spouse…there is no proof the church is false. There are just different testimonies…some believe it, some don’t. Avoid thinking you have discovered something no one else in the church has discovered before.
Truth is…for any argument you can give of why you can no longer believe the church…your husband will easily find apologetic arguments or conference talks to support what he believes.
What it will come down to is how your can navigate your relationship with your feelings, and his feelings. There isn’t a right and a wrong idea or belief, just a right and wrong way to act and treat each other based on your personal beliefs.
In reading some of the other responses, I’ll also echo the need to anticipate the fears that they might have. Maybe you have an idea of what their worries would be if the roles were reversed. Address those fears. People have a fear of the unknown. In living a FC we’ve likely spent some time grappling with the unknown but it’s all going to be fresh to your spouse. He’d be getting a shotgun blast of information in a relatively short amount of time whereas we’ve had the benefit of pondering about what all of this means much longer.
What Heber (& others) have said.
Quote:The best place to start is to focus on things you DO agree with your husband about. Charity. Service. Worth of souls. Unselfishness. These things are taught all the time in church. Then, just start to talk about things you doubt…like the literal history of the Book of Mormon, or whatever. Use good timing to talk about it, and use proper dosing that he can digest (don’t overdose him), and use tact (like respectful speech towards temples or prophets or things he holds sacred…you would do that to a friend who is any other religion, right? So do that with those close to you also).
Don’t just dump the issues you’re struggling with. Identify things about the church & the gospel, that you do like & agree with.
Try to bring some balance to your discussion. It will be easier for him to accept. And you to talk about.
God Bless!
Whiterapids, Welcome to the site! You’ve come to the right place. You’ll find a lot of supportive and open-minded people here. There are a lot of us here with spouses who know about our doubts, but don’t want to talk about it. My doubts started with the temple, and the first time I talked with my wife about it, she wouldn’t talk to me for three days. Now, I can see that I took the wrong approach. I did the opposite of what everybody has already suggested NOT to do. I took it fast, I dumped as much as I could all at once, and I made it all about the church, Joseph Smith, etc., and not about my own doubts. I also failed to tell my wife what this meant for the future. So, by the end of the conversation, she felt like I was leaving the church, and that I would be leaving her next.
I can’t add much to the great advice you’ve already received from everybody else. Take things slow. Talk about the things that you DO believe first, and then share the things that you have doubts about. Be sure to be let your husband know what you want your future to look like. Remind him that you’re still the same person, with the same values, and the same morals. Doubting the church isn’t going to make you a moral-deficient deviant. I would start and finish with talking about the things you DO believe to help reassure him of exactly where you stand.
I can also relate to how hard it is to think about your kids learning about this stuff. My crisis really intensified during the early part of last year, but I felt like the kids were okay, because they were studying the Old Testament in Primary, and I don’t have much of an issue with that. We talked a lot about symbolism and parables, and how not everything means exactly what it says. This year, my son is in my Primary class, and I’m grateful that we’re talking about the New Testament. That’s where my faith really lies right now, so I feel good about teaching it and having my kids learning about it. Next year, the curriculum will be the Book of Mormon, and the year after that will be D&C. So, at the end of this year, I’ll be requesting a transfer out of Primary. I personally view the BofM similar to Aesop’s Fables, so I wouldn’t feel comfortable teaching it to kids as being factual.
So, no earth-shattering advice here. Just take things slow, and focus on what you DO believe, even if that’s the simple
hopethat there’s a God. We’re all at different levels here, and you’ll find your balance as well. But, you’ve come to a good place to find support through the emotional rollercoaster. Welcome! We look forward to hearing from you and learning from you.
My advice is going to be different. I was and am the spouse. His shelf broke, as well as the wall it was bolted to, and half the house. 
We both needed a place to process and among ourselves it was not good.
My advice to you, besides take is slow, is hang out here for a while. There are a lot of blogs, threads, face book groups and forums each of them create energy. This site, is good for calming down, thinking, rebuilding. Take that time. Take it as a gift to yourself. We have people on this site who attend, who semi-practice, who don’t. I know you have waited 5 years, give it six months here where you can vent your brains out, get push back and plan your future.
Sometimes just talking to someone else makes a huge difference.
Part II – What do you like still? Do you like your husband? Do you like your family? In the church is there anything you like? Try listing life and your feelings in terms of what you like not what you believe and see if that helps.
Good luck. We are here no matter how it goes or what you choose.
Whiterapids, Looks like you have gotten some good advice here. The biggie for me is just take it sloooow and do plenty of thinking/pondering. I also would recommend private messaging my sister, who is also part of this group (Awakening). She WAS the spouse and may be able add to the perspective that mom3 has offered in her comments.
Good luck to you — it’s a hard place to be.
Hi, whiterapids – Really glad you’re here! :wave: I could go on and on, but it would just be my own experience. I really feel for you and identify with a lot of your situation. (Like how to get through Primary in March with all the simplified sharing times about prophets.) I try to focus on the good at church and with my husband, who doesn’t want to complicate this aspect of his life. Sometimes he does everything but actually put his fingers in his ears and say, “La, la, la, I can’t hear you.” Sometimes we have decent talks. I talk optimistically about our future and show a lot of love.
If I had a blank slate, I wouldn’t choose this church because condoning polygamy is a dealer-breaker. But I have other things to consider that are precious to me. This site really helps me do that. I became a hard-core cafeteria Mormon overnight. Because, as Hawkgrrrl helped me see, we’re all really cafeteria humans.
Hi Whiterapids! I’m 25 and single- you’re in a much more difficult spot than me. But, what this quote says by Heber is what has helped me the most. I believe in certain aspects of the church. I don’t believe in everything anymore. I don’t feel obligated to go to church every week anymore. When I go, I feel better about going. The way I look at other people has changed. I feel less judgmental and more empathetic.
We are raised in the church as it being very black and white… after my faith crisis/transition, I don’t think that’s the case. I have come to appreciate truth in general more thoroughly. I’m still in the process: My shelf cracked in the fall and I fixed it, but last month it broke and I’ve been sorting through it.
Like everyone else has said, TAKE IT SLOW. I was obsessive and it was ruining my life. I wasn’t happy and people who were close to me noticed. That was disconcerting. You need to make sure you continue to do things that are fulfilling to you so you can stay happy and have a clear head. When we aren’t worried about faith, the church is just a part of our life, not all of our life. When we are doubting or transitioning, it is everything right?
🙂 .You’re in the right place I would say even more if you still believe in God and or Jesus Christ and want to maintain a sense of spirituality. I think that’s the main objective of everyone here, regardless of belief. We all have a different system and I think for most of us, it’s continually evolving. Welcome to a group of misfits, but in the short time I’ve been here, I’ve felt so much better having a safe place with likeminded or different minded people who can expand my view.
Heber13 wrote:
One thing you can open your mind to, is that you don’t have to agree with some or all of the teachings. Allow yourself not to. You can choose if staying in the church or leaving is going to be best for you, but no matter what you choose…you want to have good influences in your life, things that help you feel peaceful, and happy, and fulfilled.It may be a paradox to you…but the church may be teaching stuff you don’t believe in…but there is more to the church than that, especially for your family and children. Can you embrace paradox? The church is not true AND the church is true (depending on what truth your’e focusing on).
The best place to start is to focus on things you DO agree with your husband about. Charity. Service. Worth of souls. Unselfishness. These things are taught all the time in church. Then, just start to talk about things you doubt…like the literal history of the Book of Mormon, or whatever. Use good timing to talk about it, and use proper dosing that he can digest (don’t overdose him), and use tact (like respectful speech towards temples or prophets or things he holds sacred…you would do that to a friend who is any other religion, right? So do that with those close to you also).
Take the onion approach of going layer by layer on what you really don’t like, but keep a hold of what you really do like. And emphasize with your husband all the things you have in common with the beliefs. Keep it all in perspective. Break from black and white thinking of it is all true or all false. And see if that helps bring peace to how you feel about the church or not.
I recommend going slow with it, and testing the waters as you go..start with something easy and innocuous, and get his reaction. Go deeper if that goes well. If you reach a point where you know being completely open will destroy your marriage, or cause him great hardship, then you have to do a cost-benefit analysis. Is being open about your church feelings worth the cost to your spouse, the relationships, and your life, as well as those affected by it? if not, then it’s best to live a quiet life of church unorthodoxy.
Just as, in my work, it’s better to live a life of quiet obedience in spite of the silly behavior I see from our current management team. The costs of being open about my true feelings are far greater than the benefits.
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