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Hello all, Been awhile since I’ve lurked these forums. I’ve had an interesting turn of events.
I’ve dealt with a faith crisis since about 2008. I’m a convert. Never been to the temple yet. (Want to). Only an Aaronic Priesthood holder even at 34 years of age (Priest).
I was a hard investigator…took about a year and a half till I was baptized and I went inactive almost immediately. I would go to church and enjoy it and read anti stuff when I got home.
Had a troubled marriage…ended in divorce back in 2015.
So I’ve been settled into an agnostic almost atheistic role…I’ve tried a few atheist friendly churches…didnt find my groove there. I stumbled across a church in Orlando FL that claimed to be a ‘spiritualist’ church where the pastor is a psychic/medium.
I went to a couple of services and took notes about whatever the psychic mentioned to me. Slowly building an extremely subjective and anecdotal evidence for there being “something” spiritual going on.
Fast forward to last September on the 25th. The pastor asks if she can give me a quick reading which I gladly agree to. She says I’m about to have a drastic change in my job but things will be just fine. Just “go with the flow” she says. She says I will be in a much better place come Feb/Mar.
I was fired over a fluke ‘nothing’ on September 26th from a job of over 10 years the very next day. I was just hired in my field and I start on Feb 20th. She said Feb and March. Everything is right on time.
How on earth could this be coincidence? It cannot be. I worked in Tampa. Not in Orlando. She barely knew me..didnt even remember my name.
So there’s something spiritual going on in this life. This much I feel confident in.
So I went to a local ward recently…I’m considering getting active again.
Where I’m struggling is…I have a deep desire to go and be apart…to go to the temple…maybe even meet a spouse…yet I am scared. I am hardly orthodox…I don’t have a testimony of the church (other than how much I love it and how much light I think it has and good it does). I don’t have a testimony of joseph smith (even though I do consider him a prophet albeit with obvious shortcomings) I don’t even have a strong testimony of Jesus Christ (read too much about how he might be made up…historically speaking)
But I tell you in all honesty…I really strongly think that there is something spiritual in this world.
Yet I still have a desire to go to the LDS church….You’d think I’d just want to stick with the spiritualist one…yet I am torn.
I have two young girls…I would raise them as being free thinkers and with self confidence…not exactly “molly mormons” if you will.
I wonder if there is a place for me…even though I am such a work in progress…my testimony is fragmented.
I know I don’t have to go to the LDS church per se….I’m not a hardliner that believes without priesthood blessings I’m doomed to a lesser kingdom…yet there is something powerful about the church that calls to me.
In truth? I’m embarrassed and scared. I love going…yet I’m scared and embarrassed because I’m so unorthodox and feel if they knew who I really was or thought about some things I would be ushered right out the door.
I’m afraid one of my daughters ends up being gay and would feel unwelcome in the church I go to…causing family emotional rifts.
I’m afraid one or both of my daughters resenting me going to such a conservative church even though there is so much about it I love.
I’ve wanted to just “loose” myself in the church and the culture and just be happy. I even love coffee and I’m willing to give that up.
This is a very emotionally charged topic as you can no doubt tell…I’ve tried to be logical about the decision but that doesn’t seem to help. I know I don’t believe everything in the bible is inspired….and I almost don’t care if the BoM is 100% historically true either.
I just know everytime I’ve driven by and been on the temple grounds in Orlando that I’ve felt the spirit. I feel it at church. I feel it when I take the sacrament. That helps me. I’m still struggling to have it at my house and in my bedroom when I pray (I don’t pray enough).
I just know there is something spiritual going on…and that does give me some solace. I don’t feel we’re really alone even though sometimes I still do feel that way.
Thank You for reading. I appreciate any advice or thoughts.
One thought that comes to mind is why do you want to ‘lose’ yourself in the church and just be happy?’ Are you unhappy? Is a religion important to you? If it is, why do you think that is? And what is it that makes you think the church will be a quick fix for being happy? You don’t need to answer all of these on the forum, just thought they’d be good questions to think about for yourself. I don’t know if there’s a way to lose yourself in the church and blindly follow things once you’ve thought about everything that’s questionable about it. I know people can come back to the church but idk if it’s possible to ever be a blind follower again. I think most people at some point who are where we are, wish they could go back to the way things were before. At the same time, I feel like my life is richer now than it was when I didn’t know everything I know now. I like being able to think for myself, it’s been refreshing. I feel like I’m learning who I actually am now rather than basing who I am on the church. I remember when people would want me to tell them about myself, mormon was one of the few words I could come up with because it was a huge part of who I was, and I don’t want that anymore. I still enjoy church, but the religion isn’t who I am.
When it comes to being happy, I’ve been reading into secular buddhism lately and one of the buddhist ideas is that you don’t ‘need’ things to be happy, you can be happy just as you are. It theorizes a lot on the idea of focusing on the now and not worrying about the future because all you have is the moment you’re in. Also that happiness is a trap. That thinking someday you’ll reach happiness isn’t a good idea because you may not make it to ‘someday’ and may spend your life focusing on reaching happiness and may never reach it. And if you reach happiness, it never stays so then you’re back where you started. Anyway, I’ve really been soaking up the secular buddhism ideas because they fit well with agnosticism or atheism and it’s not really a religion, just ideas for how to view things and they make a lot of sense to me and they’re easy for me to believe in, while also still being active at church.
The interesting part I’m picking up from your message is that some how you feel called or pulled toward the church. You do indeed sound unorthodox (as far as the church is concerned) to the Nth degree. I won’t say there’s no room for you because I do believe there is room for everybody in the church. But I also recognize that people who don’t believe have a very difficult row to hoe. There are nuanced ways to answer the questions for the Melchizedek Priesthood and temple recommend (they seem virtually the same), but you have to work at that and feel as though you are honest with yourself in answering them in a nuanced way. There are threads here about that, and I particularly recommend those found here: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6117 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6117 Jorsen wrote:I have a deep desire to go and be apart…to go to the temple…maybe even meet a spouse…
Quote:Yet I still have a desire to go to the LDS church…
Quote:yet there is something powerful about the church that calls to me.
Quote:I love going…
Quote:I’ve wanted to just “lose” myself in the church and the culture and just be happy. I even love coffee and I’m willing to give that up.
Quote:I just know everytime I’ve driven by and been on the temple grounds in Orlando that I’ve felt the spirit. I feel it at church.
Hi, Jorsen – I’m glad you’re here. I know I drastically slashed your post, but I see a lot of strong statements, and my instinct is to say, Go with it. I wish I felt the same way. It seems we are wired to worship…something and somewhere, and you’ve at least found your “where.” I wouldn’t worry too much about being shown the door.
As a daughter, woman and mother of girls, I do agree that you should think through the messages your girls will get at church. I internalized a lot of bad stuff, but a tuned-in parent can do a lot to neutralize that. (I hope!)
Jorsen wrote:…I’ve had an interesting turn of events…So I’ve been settled into an agnostic almost atheistic role…I’ve tried a few atheist friendly churches…didnt find my groove there. I stumbled across a church in Orlando FL that claimed to be a ‘spiritualist’ church where the pastor is a psychic/medium…I went to a couple of services and took notes about whatever the psychic mentioned to me. Slowly building an extremely subjective and anecdotal evidence for there being “something” spiritual going on…Fast forward to last September on the 25th. The pastor asks if she can give me a quick reading which I gladly agree to. She says I’m about to have a drastic change in my job but things will be just fine. Just “go with the flow” she says. She says I will be in a much better place come Feb/Mar…I was fired over a fluke ‘nothing’ on September 26th from a job of over 10 years the very next day. I was just hired in my field and I start on Feb 20th. She said Feb and March. Everything is right on time…
How on earth could this be coincidence? It cannot be. I worked in Tampa. Not in Orlando. She barely knew me..didnt even remember my name…So there’s something spiritual going on in this life. This much I feel confident in.I am hardly orthodox…I don’t have a testimony of the church (other than how much I love it and how much light I think it has and good it does). I don’t have a testimony of joseph smith (even though I do consider him a prophet albeit with obvious shortcomings) I don’t even have a strong testimony of Jesus Christ (read too much about how he might be made up…historically speaking)…But I tell you in all honesty…I really strongly think that there is something spiritual in this world…Yet I still have a desire to go to the LDS church….You’d think I’d just want to stick with the spiritualist one…yet I am torn.
I know I don’t believe everything in the bible is inspired….and I almost don’t care if the BoM is 100% historically true either…I just know everytime I’ve driven by and been on the temple grounds in Orlando that I’ve felt the spirit. I feel it at church. I feel it when I take the sacrament. That helps me. I’m still struggling to have it at my house and in my bedroom when I pray (I don’t pray enough)… I appreciate any advice or thoughts. I’m glad you shared your story about the psychic, personally I really like to hear about unusual experiences like this. In fact, experiences like this of a few people I know personally where I don’t believe they were lying are one of the main reasons I’ll probably never be an atheist because I can’t explain them very well at all using atheist assumptions and it is simply easier for me to just take them at face value and admit that I don’t really know what they mean than try explain them away somehow.
As far as how to stay in the Church (if you want to) without a traditional LDS testimony, my main suggestion would be to not take the Church’s teachings and demands too seriously. Other Church members will definitely take some of this very seriously and expect you to do the same if you stick around for long but just because they say it that doesn’t mean you need to believe it. You could say no to things like callings, tithing, etc. on a case-by-case basis without having to leave the Church behind altogether if you don’t want to.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:Jorsen wrote:
As far as how to stay in the Church (if you want to) without a traditional LDS testimony, my main suggestion would be to not take the Church’s teachings and demands too seriously.Other Church members will definitely take some of this very seriously and expect you to do the same if you stick around for long but just because they say it that doesn’t mean you need to believe it. You could say no to things like callings, tithing, etc. on a case-by-case basis without having to leave the Church behind altogether if you don’t want to. I agree with DA on this. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. Keep the good, filter out the bad. Make your conscience king. But maintain enough humility to be hope to the things that the church teaches, and consider them in your own personal decision-making.
I would be cautious about going deeper and deeper in your commitment until you feel you can live up to any new covenants. I would keep your unorthodox ideas, your doubts to yourself. Share with others the spirit you feel and the positive aspects. And be completely authentic here online but not to the local leaders or members. Be supportive of people for whom the church works, and don’t detract from their faith. And make sure you have interests that go beyond the church — decide what place it has in your life and commit time and resources accordingly.
One bit of advice — avoid leader worship, or expecting too much of the church — in spite of its grand claims about its origin, it’s divine head, the church-u-monies you hear about how the church is so wonderful and glorious. All these things set you up for disappointment when humans inevitably fall short of their ideals — in spite of your own commitment and success in living up to those ideals.
Thank you all for your advice and perspectives. I attended church again today and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think this is the path I am going to walk for a little while. I’ve been being blessed by attending and learning and growing. My atheistic world view has shattered…only because a lady who says she is psychic gave me a word of knowledge that would have been impossible for her to know. This has proven to me in a subjective and anecdotal way that there truly is something spiritual going on in this world.
I am feeling good as I go…there were times in sacrament where perhaps someone says that outside of the path of happiness (salvation) that there is no way to have joy…I understand what they were saying…and I can understand why they said it…even though I may not agree 100%…perhaps I truly can walk a middle way? I’m finding that there just may be more here for me than I am even thinking is possible. I am going to try and keep my wits about me…I am prone to worship leaders…or at least to put them on a pedestal. I suppose my younger side has always done this…but as I get older I recognize that we are all human and make mistakes…and so too have leaders…
I also think I am particularly blessed because the bishop of my ward is just so wonderful and encouraging and understanding. I recognize that there is an element of bishop roulette involved.
What is also interesting here too…is I am full of love and admiration for those who choose to walk away from the church and for those who choose no church at all. Some of the most moral people I’ve ever met are atheists. It feels strange to be walking this path while admiring and respecting their views…but since I had something so supernatural happen to me…I just can’t walk away from that.
Perhaps I can stay here on this forum more and be a bit of a help. Especially as I grow and get more experience as a church member…since at the moment I am still so new. I wonder how much is just the honey moon phase of being happy and feeling blessed and feeling so good to belong to a great group of people. What is strange I have to say is that unlike when I was deep in the mire of my faith crisis where I was obsessed with absolute truth in such a black and white way…I am now a-lot more nuanced. I can’t quite tell if that is just experience helping me…the spirit helping me…or what. I would be fine with sustaining all church leaders…I do believe the church is true….and everything else….from a certain point of view.
Quote:
Perhaps I can stay here on this forum more and be a bit of a helpStay as long as you like. And as for us helping you – I find it works both ways. When you share your joys, insights, and positives it helps us keep our vision clear. There is room on our bench for you. Always will be.
I have no time tonight for a substantive response, but I do want to welcome you. I hope we can help each other in whatever way possible. You might like some of the posts made by “Churchistrue” on this site http://forum.staylds.com/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author=churchistrue&sf=firstpost ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://forum.staylds.com/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author=churchistrue&sf=firstpost http://www.churchistrue.com/http://www.churchistrue.com/” class=”bbcode_url”> DevilsAdvocate wrote:As far as how to stay in the Church (if you want to) without a traditional LDS testimony, my main suggestion would be to not take the Church’s teachings and demands too seriously. Other Church members will definitely take some of this very seriously and expect you to do the same if you stick around for long but just because they say it that doesn’t mean you need to believe it. You could say no to things like callings, tithing, etc. on a case-by-case basis without having to leave the Church behind altogether if you don’t want to.
I also agree with this. I like the Robert Kirby (Salt Lake Tribune) approach to being LDS.
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