- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
So i have a new concern that i what to gather some feedback on. As my introduction posts…i have struggled with feelings of inadequacy over being single and my lack of finances and resulting trouble paying my tithing. Im still wrestling with what to do about the tithing issue. Being a single woman making barely above mininum wage it is very hard to pay my bills and pay my tithing. Im lucky if i have money to buy medicine or meat or milk on regular basis for example (btw my internet is free where i live if you were curious). Im very afraid this will be the final straw for me. Its so difficult because of the fact that i love church and the church members i fellowship with. I really love serving in the church too. So i appreciate the guidance several of you have offered here on that topic.
My concern also is that im pushing some of my “friends” away that i have made at church. I became very good friends with the Bishop and his family right after i joined. As i struggled with the change that came with attending church 3 hrs every Sunday (this is the first church i have ever been to), accepting a calling, doing visiting teaching, etc. My friends were there to help me thru my complaints and whining via text, email, and phone calls. I can only imagine the conversations they had about me behind closed doors!
😆 But since he was released as Bishop i’ve noticed that the friendship has sortof changed. When my concerns turned to matters of church doctrine and were more serious (recently) i almost can feel an invisible wall was put up. Do you think they are just tired of me or worried i might poison their testimony and family? I have tried to tovery softlyask about things pertaining to our faith that i have read online. I was told flat out that everything i read online about the church that is negative is untrue or i misunderstood. For example, i read on MormonThink? i believe that some of the higher GA receive a salary. That really disturbed me because that was the one the things i love about our church is the fact that its all volunteer. NO! i was told…thats not true. I asked is it true the church buys property for investment purposes or personal use with tithing funds? NO! not true. Im worried that i may have pushed too far now. Is that the risk you take if you dont just accept what your told and become curious? I believe that some of what you are experiencing comes down to human nature, both in and outside the church, really any time there’s an “us” and there’s a “them.” For example, something very similar happened to me when I joined the church. I had a friend come up to me and tell me “I know why you are so unhappy. Joseph Smith wasn’t a prophet and your church isn’t true.” I was taken completely off guard, I didn’t see myself as unhappy, I had just found the true church. That friend completely walked out of my life, I never saw them again. I faced similar trials with family except blood turned out to be thicker than water. It just took time to restore normal relations. I only mention this because I view it as being all about perspectives. To family and friends I was part of their “us” group and they saw the church the “them” group.
People in church are humans so they aren’t immune to the us vs. them mindset either. To many members a lot of information (true or otherwise) is seen as coming from “them.” Them aren’t to be trusted, them are shut out before they are even given a voice. It’s a defense mechanism. A reflex.
Please share your concerns here. From what I’ve seen this group is very good at enlarging the place of our tent, of lengthening the cords, such that someone seeking a friend or an ear is encompassed within our “us.”
Welcome.
wornoutsneakers, regarding tithing. In my past life, I calculated my tithing payment as 10% of my gross without question. Today, I look at my income, my expenses & what’s left over. I ask myself is there any expenses that are not really necessary & try to cut back where I can.
Next I decide what I can afford to contribute.
I pray about it & try to get an answer.
I make a payment & tell God, “this is my tithing, does it feel right to you too?”
In my opinion, this decision is between you & God
alone. Don’t make choices between paying for food or tithing.
Don’t feel guilty. (For what its worth)
You’ll work it out.
Sneakers: take a look at this post for more info on tithing http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html The brethren receive a “living wage” and/or all of their expenses are covered. Most people call this a salary. Since they are full time this is probably justified. How much their “living wage” is isn’t disclosed, but lots of those who have worked for the church their whole lives have multiple homes and have domestic help. You should read the link provided by turingurambar.
Tim wrote:The brethren receive a “living wage” and/or all of their expenses are covered. Most people call this a salary. Since they are full time this is probably justified. How much their “living wage” is isn’t disclosed, but lots of those who have worked for the church their whole lives have multiple homes and have domestic help.
Then i wonder why when i asked my friends…who have been lifelong members, served missions, and the husband was a Bishop…did they insist that they dont get an income? Is it just a lack of knowledge or a lack of acknowledgment?
It’s a lack of knowledge, and the church doesn’t do anything to try to set the record straight on that score. Anyone who has taken the time to look into it or who is close to the general authorities or church headquarters knows this, but very few people want to make a big deal out of it. My father-in-law works full time for the church at the church office building in Salt Lake, and when I asked him he confirmed it for me. He also confirmed for me that the church’s investment activities and real estate purchases are paid for with tithing. Where else would the money come from? Even if they used money earned solely from investments, where do you think the original money came from? It’s all from tithing, ultimately. My father-in-law told me an interesting story the other day about how management practices have changed in the church office building. They used to be pretty tight-fisted about “splurging” on things like eating out as a department, giving Christmas bonuses, and the like. Since they are all getting paid with tithing money, they didn’t want to use it on anything that might be perceived as indulgent or frivolous to any degree. But lately their management have changed their perspective. They now view those things as ways to boost morale and improve employee satisfaction and ultimately employee effectiveness. So they now go out to eat sometimes, and yes it’s paid for with tithing money. (For the record, my father-in-law is not a general authority. He works in the family history department of the church as a project manager.)
If you think about it, there’s no other way it could possibly work. The church is huge and has major administrative needs, which means full time workers, and that all costs money. There’s really nowhere else for the money to come from except tithing unless you expected all the church’s employees and general authorities to be independently wealthy. Maybe the money could come from personal donations over and above tithing, but I don’t think that would ever be sufficient.
It’s still pretty awesome that the local clergy, at least, are all volunteers.
Expect relationships to change when leaders get released. Your bishop probably sees his role differently now that he’s not your bishop. and sadly, some of his attention to you when he was Bishop was a result of the role he saw as Bishop of the Ward. I would find new friends while keeping old one, on the new terms your ex-Bishop seems to be implicitly sharing with you. .
Regarding tithing, each person has to make that decision for themself. I personally feel its wrong that the church makes a big deal out of self-reliance, but then drops the concept as soon as tithing is involved. They will preach saving, self-reliance, food storage — all those things, but as soon as you don’t have enough money to sustain yourself, they still preach paying your tithing anyway. They would rather have you dependent on food orders as long as you pay your tithing because of the message it sends about the importance of paying a “full” tithe.
Its as if they don’t want anyone to have wiggle room to make the decision to lessen their donations to the church, so they insist everyone pays a 10% tithe, regardless of personal circumstances.
We have the story of the widows mite, who gave all she could afford. We don’t know if it was 10% (do we?) but she got the blessings nonetheless.
If I were you, I would pay on surplus so at least I had the things I needed. figure out how much you have left over after you pay all your necessities and things you feel you need. Pay 10% on the surplus. Now THAT balances individual needs and organizational church interests.
At least some of the GA’s receive what I have heard termed as a “stipend.” I also understood that it wasn’t especially large. Back in the early 1900’s a GA called it a “glorified retirement program.” But things may have changed since then. I agree that many members may not know this information.
Also, you may want to be careful of MormonThink. It does seem to be a handy place to find out everything unsavory in one stop shop – but unfortunately it is almost exlusively information biased in its presentation against the church.
[ Admin Note]: At this point, MormonThink is a classic anti-Mormon site. The people who run it are dedicated to driving people away from the Church, and they present only the worst interpretation of everything they post – and skip everything that is good. It white-washes (or black-washes, if you will) FAR more blatantly than the LDS Church has – and I mean that. The managing director is the man who sued the Church in England recently – and he is a blatant hypocrite, using deception to entice people to the site. He was an extremist zealot as a member, and he now is an extremist zealot as an ex-member. We will not link to that site here, based on our rules.
Good to know. I wondered why there were so many bad stories on MormonThink. A few of them actually made me laugh they seemed so impossibly bad. So now i know. If i hadnt mentioned it i would have never known!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.