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There are far more people in the Church who see things in a nuanced way than most people realize. It’s good to be reminded of that occasionally. I’m really glad you had this experience today.
The concept of becoming “adults of God” has been mentioned several times here. I really like the analogy. I think a lot of this echoes what mackay said. I think what you’re describing is how i felt a few months ago when I started here. I think it’s the teenager of God (or at least of the Mormon concept of God) phase. somewhere between child (willing to submit to all things) and adult(mature enough to make decisions for ourselves without relying necessarily on an outward source for morality {my definition of it anyways…})
I’m reminded of when my family moved me away from all of my friends and turned my life upside-down right before my senior year. I proceeded to “show them” by slacking off, skipping class, ruining my gpa, not preparing for college, and other things–mostly playing video games all day. In the end, it didn’t really affect my parents. But it set me back. A lot. I didn’t get into a good college, which i should have. I gained a ton of weight sitting around all day playing games (which i still haven’t lost 10 years later) and I wasted a whole year of my life doing it.
When I realized the church wasn’t what it said it was, a lot of things suddenly became super appealing. Things proscribed by the WoW especially. But, like you, I realized I was doing them out of spite, not just because I was doing them. I quickly found out a week of rebellious starbucks consumption is pretty darned expensive.
I guess what I’ve realized now is that in the end, the church loses hardly anything from someone being “rebellious” like that. We stand to lose a lot. Friends, family, neighbors, etc. Not to say moving away from the rules is bad, but take it slow. mackay11 wrote:In other words. Do what you think is right (for you). The consequences will naturally follow. Some things that are ‘commandments’ are also ‘good principles.’
I want to echo that. Especially that commandments can be good principles. There are usually good reasons behind many commandments. It’s only that we focus on either “because god said so” or to get “blessings” so much that we may not realize the logic behind many of them. A lot of times I think it’s about making the shift in the reason for keeping a commandment from “because i’m supposed to” to “because i want to”. And then if you can’t really find a reason you want to, I wouldn’t worry about it.
I’m really glad you had such a good time with your client. Sounds like things got a lot better from just getting it out there. That’s half the reason I like to reply. Getting my thoughts out helps.
Yeah — I would focus on learning to be at peace with the things you don’t agree with. Tatoos are hard to get rid of, to begin with. And second, leave your options as open as possible for the future. For me tattoos don’t do that. You’ll also feel better inside if you can transform anger into peace.
I too feel the church’s policies have shut me out of many good things I might’ve had, that I won’t mention as I’m sick of talking about them. But they were choices I made at the time thinking they were right and good. I respect myself for wanting to do what I thought was pure and right, even though it entailed sacrifice — and now, appears to have been outright stupid. But no one can take away the state of my heart at that time.
I read a book called Decisive recently. This book suggests that in any situation, you need a defensive decision that preserves what is good in the status quo, and a proactive decision that creates new opportunities.
So, think about what is good in the church for you, and preserve that. For me, I use the time at church to clean my wallet, read, make phone calls during Sunday School (my wife is teaching in primary now on an assignment basis). And I still let my kids benefit from the stability, good values, and the excellent youth program our new Ward runs. I don’t talk badly about the church to my kids or bring it up excessively to my wife. All these are defensive moves on my part to keep the good parts of the church intact.
On the proactive side, I am involved in other non-church service activities that I am finding very interesting. They are allowing me to grow and progress in new ways. I enjoy them. They serve others and bring fulfilment and excitement to my life I can’t find in church service right now.
So my questions.
1. How can you reframe your past decisions to stay with the church in a way that translates anger into peace?
2. How can you preserve the positive aspects of the church in your life while minimizing the negative aspects?
3. How can you fill the void with Christlike activities that serve others (in or out of the Church)?
There is nothing like being “anxiously engaged in A good cause” to distract you from anger and fill your life with meaning. As the D&C says, men should be anxiously engaged in A good cause”. It doesn’t have to be a Church one, just a good one.
Good job getting it out there, OTF. Tons of great thoughts in the reply. The only thing I would add is that when I feel this way, cause I have felt the EXACT same things, I go back to my study of THE ESSAY ( http://www.staylds.com/?page_id=462 ) . It is long, but I took like three hours to actually journal and think about what mindsets I could use, and planned ways that I could trade up my religion. This was huge because I am now living it under my terms, and I can make adjustments as I see fit. SO freeing. I know Brian Johnston had to have been feeling the spirit as he wrote that piece because it is inspired.12 women!!! Sounds like a great ward
😆 As a side note, boob jobs are horrible (not for cancer or humiliating things)! Maybe we need to start a topic on this, because they are much worse than tattoos, in my opinion. Boob jobs are emblems of societies’ pressure on women; the same pressure that leads to so much depression and feelings of shame. It comes from the objectifying of women. How sad is it that women feel so inadequate that they will take those risks? I understand I am being very general. I’m not out with a broad brush, well I am, let’s just say I won’t judge, but this is what I think. I will also venture to say that where there is a normal woman wanting augmentation there is likely a sex addict nearby. That might be harsh, but I am just saying that I would bet and I would win most of the time.Best wishes to you.
SD, I really love that advice. I do believe that the path to freedom from anger is service and to focus on positive things. In the 12 step program there is a saying that is repeated at each meeting, “Service if freedom from bondage of self”. I agree with that! I see it work when I apply that principle. I am also trying to work on the real cause of the anger b/c I can pretty much guarantee it isn’t what I am focusing on. I am just trying to see It is just part of the journey and not have guilt about it. Yesterday I felt ripped off and hated this faith crisis. I wished I could go back to sleep and try to “earn” my worthiness and rely on others to tell me what is good and right for me”. Today I am SO grateful for the learning and freedom to think and act for myself and I am enjoy letting the world in with no fear. Tomorrow (or even later today) that may change. But for this moment I am enjoying the peace.
There is way too much good in this religion to throw it all away and my rational side knows and loves this church and the positive things it brings. Honestly, some of the best people I have ever met are members of this church. I love my family and I don’t think I would have met my husband had I never come back to church, or even served a mission for that matter. He is the best thing that ever happened in my life and I am the best thing that ever happened to him:) I don’t ever want to do anything to ruin what we have. I have enjoyed talking to him about all of my fears. He laughed when I told him my plans to get a tattoo and my ears re-pierce my ears. He is so patient and loving models what Love is to me… not all the time, but much of the time. I can’t imagine how I would act if he were in my position and I in his. I am sad to say that in my TBM I don’t think I would have handled it nearly as loving.
Anyway, about the tattoo, I turn 40 in 13 months… I gave myself permission to get one on my 40th bday if I still choose to and am doing it for the right reason. The ear piercing will probably happen MUCH sooner than that. I don’t see it as much as a rebellion as much as I just think it is cute and I don’t see anything wrong with it.
broofturker,
Quote:12 women!!! Sounds like a great ward
😆
hahaha I think that is what bothers me most… the objectifying women. We objectify ourselves. I can’t say that I am not guilty at this to some degree either. I wear make up get my hair done, work out…. But I came to the conclusion that I will never finding peace if I am looking for outward appearance or circumstance to make me happy. I feel like the general behavior or thinking in my area is “we have to be perfect.. act perfect, look perfect, cook perfect, do perfect parties, have the perfect clean house, be perfect crafter, be perfect woman, wife, mother.. and if I get boobs I will finally be happy b/c I will fix my sex life, thus be perfect wife for my husband b/c I will love myself better BULL$%*&^!! My brother is a sex addict and his wife kept contemplating a boob job for the same reason. So you may not be far off with that and I have often worried about the same reason for these women and my heart breaks for them. I know Utah is the biggest % of internet porn… here is an interesting phenomenon: my brother and his wife divorced last year. He said now that he is divorced and dates women who don’t care if he drinks or looks at porn he doesn’t feel so desperate to do it, so he hardly does anymore. CRAZY! Not that I am a porn advocate… I actually have serious issues with the detrimental effects it CAN cause (particularly young children exposed)… but I do think the pressures of being perfect and abstaining for her has done wonders for him. He is happier than I have seen him in years!OK, sorry for the tangent!
Please, tangent away…it’s good for the soul. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
haha Thanks Cwald! When I read your first post under this topic, I couldn’t help but chuckle and say out loud, “Yes! I’m so there with everything you are saying!” It has really helped me to read the replies and hear about how you have been able, over the past week or so, to work through some of the anger and feelings. I agree with all that has been posted and have to keep reminding myself not to do something, “just to get even or prove that I can”. Thanks for posting all your thoughts, they seem to echo mine, and thanks to everyone for the replies–I just can show enough gratitude for how much this site is helping me to process! It is a little embarrassing for me to reread what I wrote…haha… but that was how I was feeling. I no longer am itching for a tattoo… maybe next year my my 40th bday. Or maybe I will grow out of it? Who knows. I am trying not to set any decisions or beliefs in stone. Conflicted, I agree…THANK GOODNESS for this site and the support of good friends!! I would have gone nutso (well more than I already have/am).
opentofreedom wrote:It is a little embarrassing for me to reread what I wrote…haha… but that was how I was feeling. I no longer am itching for a tattoo… maybe next year my my 40th bday. Or maybe I will grow out of it? Who knows. I am trying not to set any decisions or beliefs in stone.
Conflicted, I agree…THANK GOODNESS for this site and the support of good friends!! I would have gone nutso (well more than I already have/am).
Writing crystallises thought.
Sometimes when we write things down (or even simply say them out loud) it allows us to express what we think we feel. Once they are “feelings crystallised” we can have a better look at them and ask, do I really feel this way? Sometimes being able to have a second look a day or two later gives us the chance to see them (rather than just feel them) and decide whether it’s really important to us or not.
No-one will ever hold you to anything you say on this website. You can change your mind as many times as you like. We get it
Like cwald said, speak on… it’s good for the soul.
Mackay11, thanks so much.
Quote:crystallises thought
describes it beautifully. Evolving, changing. And it is so helpful to have record of the ups and downs… AND YES, it IS good for my soul to get it out.
mackay11 wrote:
Writing crystallises thought.Sometimes when we write things down (or even simply say them out loud) it allows us to express what we think we feel. Once they are “feelings crystallised” we can have a better look at them and ask, do I really feel this way? Sometimes being able to have a second look a day or two later gives us the chance to see them (rather than just feel them) and decide whether it’s really important to us or not.
No-one will ever hold you to anything you say on this website. You can change your mind as many times as you like. We get it
Like cwald said, speak on… it’s good for the soul.
OMGosh. Some things hit me like a ton of bricks. Thanks for those words.
Hi opentofreedom, Totally understand what you are thinking and going through. I ‘ve had a faith crisis although I’ve worked through it thanks to many of the folks here. I really enjoyed reading the threads about how people view and answer temple recommend questions. I have to laugh and want to cry sometimes about boob jobs. Although I don’t deny it would be fun if my wife got one, I have to think that in 200 years it will be viewed not unlike feet binding is viewed today. Same idea about how many mormons live the WoW.
For me, I’ve thought about running away and doing some of the things described. Leaving the wife and kids, affairs, tattoos, alcohol, not attending church, motorcycles, etc. I’ve decided against many of those simply because I think I would regret doing most of those later in life. I have started doing things I’d never had considered before, and which help “scratch my itch” and don’t hurt my family. Some of the changes I’ve made in my life include: paying a non-traditional tithe, drinking iced tea, exercising and participating in sports events on Sundays, rated R movies, and avoiding the temple whenever possible. I’m also open about my opinions about church history and doctrine but I never bring them unless someone asks – and they never do. That being said, there are still a lot of things I genuinely like about the church and I try to think about those when I’m listening to asinine comments or talks during church.
I don’t post much here any more, mostly because of lack of time, but when feeling crazy or surrounded by fools I come here and breathe deeply.
RR, I had to chuckle at your post. “fun if your wife got a boob job and may view it as feet binding in 200 years”. I really wonder how our society will change and view things 200 years from now. How absurd things are and if they will get more absurd or if we will figure out things in a more balanced way. These things that make me go ..hmmmm? I wonder. I wouldn’t doubt it if I were really tempted in a few months to get a boobjob b/c of my harsh judgements about them. That seems to be my current trend, I judge then soon after I find myself doing, acting, believing in the things I judged. KARMA?
It made me happy to see you finding ways to stay in the church and live it in a way that wont hurt others. I am trying to do the same thing with my husband and children. I don’t see anything wrong with motorcycles or tattoos, but if it would hurt your wife then I see the importance of not doing it. I still want a tattoo my hubby is repulsed by them. But I still want one and decided to hold off until crisis feels more resolved or I hit 40 and still want one. I did recently get my tragus pierced (it is part of the ear that isn’t commonly pierced). I find it hilarious how my TBM friends are responding to it, as if I just had an affair, or denounced Jesus. Since when did having more than one earring become a moral sin? Pres. Hinckley!? I was trying to explain that it means “freedom” from limiting beliefs, but it ended up making some of my friends more concerned. So now I am keeping my reasons to myself and saying it is just my way of dealing with my mid-life-crisis. That seems more acceptable to everyone, even if they now think I am insane. I am just trying to remember how I was a year or so ago. I would have thought the same thing.
It sounds really ridiculous on how happy having this ear piercing has made me. I feel like I am free. I honestly feel that God smiles at it b/c He knows that I am not afraid of what I supposed to be His judgments. I feel that I am closer to Him now b/c I am open to see, feel and hear His love for me for the right reason. I did it because I know that it is up to me to decide what goes in and on my body. I don’t find this piercing offensive to my temple (or at least any more or less than wearing make up, coloring my hair or wearing a bra, eating meat, drinking soda, eating sugar..etc). I hope to someday have a pure desire to take the BEST care of my body without guilt or fear, but of pure motives. Right now I am not there and that is OK to be where I am. It is all line upon line, precept upon precept.
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