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A troubled woman came to the Indian saint and sage Amakrishna, saying, “O Master, I do not find that I love God.” And he asked, “Is there nothing, then, that you love?”
To this she answered, “My little nephew.”
And he said to her, “There is your love and service to God, in your love and service to that child.”
Is it that simple? Find someone in your life you love, and by loving them, God is loved.
Or is God more demanding that we show our love to Him in more ways than that simple thing?
Matt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. D&C 42: 38 For inasmuch as ye do it unto the least of these, ye do it unto me.
I don’t think there is much difference between loving mankind and loving God. I believe that love is a power-the power of God. If you focus on love (even for just 1 person) that love will grow. Then you will find yourself loving more and seeing God and being amazed at His majesty.
What do these scriptures mean? Perhaps they are really telling us that God is part of all people-even down to the lowliest person. When we serve and love even the least, we are literally serving and loving God. Could it be!?!
Love is so powerful that is could change the world. Imagine what would happen if we all regarded eachother with love-like ourselves, like God. Soldiers would refuse to take up arms. There would be an end to war, neglect, starvation, suicide, and on and on.
*sigh* Somehow we miss this plain and precious message by focusing on pointless minutia.
1 John 4:7 Beloved,
let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for
God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might alive through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time.
If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him,
That he who loveth God love his brother also. [bolding mine] God IS love. He who loves God also loves his brother (all mankind). The reverse could be said, too. He who loves his brother loves God.
Great thoughts Heber, just me- This topic is actually exactly where I am in my journey with one small tweak. I feel that by loving myself, I love God. My perception/consciousness is all that I have(God) and by loving myself and the good that is in me, I am loving God. Recognizing that in myself, I also recognize God in all of my fellow human beings and feel that if I love myself(God) unconditionally, I can and feel compelled to love everyone else unconditionally. It’s the unconditionally part that’s the trick, imho.
You are right, Swim! That is also part of the truth. I love this part of the journey. Once we get to the Love the seeking can stop. Now we just have to learn to cultivate it and share it. 1 Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Luke 17:20 ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold,
the kingdom of God is within you. [bold mine] The Light of Christ is within us. It is Light and Truth and Love. When we deny this part of ourselves, are we not denying the Christ?
At the most elemental level, the core of Mormonism confirms that God is love – and His work and glory is to manifest that love to and for His children. justme wrote:Love is so powerful that is could change the world. Imagine what would happen if we all regarded eachother with love-like ourselves, like God.
Yes. By the way, I’m glad you quoted 1John 4 – one of my favs.
swimordie wrote:I feel that by loving myself, I love God. My perception/consciousness is all that I have(God) and by loving myself and the good that is in me, I am loving God. Recognizing that in myself, I also recognize God in all of my fellow human beings and feel that if I love myself(God) unconditionally
I see a theme…Love God, love myself, love my neighbor…I’m not sure there is any order in that, more like a ring with no start or no end just all leading around to eachother, can’t really do one without the others.
As log as loving myself doesn’t become pride, but becomes acceptance of me and all my weaknesses and all my strengths. I need to be healthy inside.
Ray wrote:At the most elemental level, the core of Mormonism confirms that God is love – and His work and glory is to manifest that love to and for His children.
Ray, can you expound for my benefit? Is there something different about mormonism than other christian religions on this? (not mocking…but leading…)
Sure, I’ll explain what I mean. Ultimately, one of the reasons I love Mormon theology so much is that it is such a loving theology – FAR more loving than any other Christian denomination of which I am aware. (I don’t count Unitarian Universalists, frankly, because, as much as I admire them, I see them as a non-denominational church with a denominational name only.) By a “loving theology”, I mean:
1) God does what He does out of what I call “true parental love” – not some condescending “love” that is more like a master has for his pets. I mean that literally. Think of the ultimate end in mainstream Christian theology, and it’s incredibly self-serving of God. I want to say this carefully, but it boils down essentially to:
“Adore me. Tell me how much you love me. Praise me. **Give me the glory.** After all, I deserve it; I’m God, and you aren’t.”
In Calvinism, it can be taken to the extreme that yields:
“Dance for me – all of you. DO your best to please me, and, at the end, I’ll let you know which of you I have already chosen to bless and which of you danced your darnedest just so I could take pleasure in your dancing – before I roasted you forever in that fiery lake over there.”
In Mormonism, however, God’s entire “work and glory” is to do all he can to make sure his children grow to become like him. His “glory” is the same “glory” I receive when my kids grow up to be good people – the pride and joy and accomplishment I feel when I know that my actions have helped produce something beautiful and good and uplifting and enlightening and wonderful and OF ME. That’s true parental love – and it simply doesn’t exist in most Christian theology.
If you want to read something else I wrote about this general topic, the following post from Mormon Matters addresses how we define praise, honor and glory differently than the rest of Christianity:
“Praise, Honor and Glory Be to God” (
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/07/07/praise-honor-glory-be-to-god/ Heber13 wrote:A troubled woman came to the Indian saint and sage Amakrishna, saying, “O Master, I do not find that I love God.”
And he asked, “Is there nothing, then, that you love?”
To this she answered, “My little nephew.”
And he said to her, “There is your love and service to God, in your love and service to that child.”
Is it that simple? Find someone in your life you love, and by loving them, God is loved.
Or is God more demanding that we show our love to Him in more ways than that simple thing?
I love this. Is it that simple? Well, mankind for thousands of years has come up with all kinds of doctrines, ideas of God, Jesus, ordinances, holy books, witch hunts, etc. as a means of explaining it (or complicating it). So no, it doesn’t seem that simple, at least not to those who come up with all this. But yes, I do believe it is that simple in reality, and in practicality. It might not be all there is to religion, but I think it is easily the most important. I’ve said this before, but if there is one characterization of Jesus that perfectly summarizes his life, teachings, etc. it is “unconditional love.” That’s what I get out of the New Testament (John particularly), and the brilliant, moving narrative in 3 Nephi 11. Too bad humankind tries so hard to read into the various other “doctrines” implied by our scriptures, yet miss the main point!On a practical level, finding someone in life and loving them accomplishes some important goals, not addressed by various eschatological theories, ideas of God, etc.
1. It makes this life better for yourself and the person you love.
2. It brings our focus to the present, rather than some future life.
3. We set a good example to those around us (especially our children). This is far more important than being a Gospel Doctrine scholar, IMHO.
4. We become teachable, lovable, respectable, and humble. I think we all agree that the world needs more of these kinds of people.
5. It solves problems. People want to work with you when they feel your love.
6. It solves relationship problems. One of my most powerful experiences on my mission had to do with two companions I had, one that showed me unconditional love, and later, one to whom I reciprocated that love (who was headed home, but stayed because I was the first companion to love him (don’t want to toot my own horn
😳 )).Ray, your comments are incredibly offensive and highly mistaken, not to mention judgmental of other churches and their members who truly worship the Lord and love HIm with all their heart and soul. It doesn’t seem like you know what worship or praising God really is as you may have never experienced it. May I suggest you actually visit some Christian churches in your community? swimordie wrote:Great thoughts Heber, just me-
This topic is actually exactly where I am in my journey with one small tweak. I feel that by loving myself, I love God. My perception/consciousness is all that I have(God) and by loving myself and the good that is in me, I am loving God. Recognizing that in myself, I also recognize God in all of my fellow human beings and feel that if I love myself(God) unconditionally, I can and feel compelled to love everyone else unconditionally. It’s the unconditionally part that’s the trick, imho.
That was beautiful Swimordie. I really enjoyed that thought.
The Psalms are load with references on praising God. Please take a look at them. I will forever sing praises to my God and Lord, for all these reasons. I will not sing praise to a man as in Hymn # 27, but will sing Praise to God from who all blessings flow. Hymn #242! It is our very Father and God you are talking about and I have no problem worshipping Him and giving Him all the honor and praise that is due such a loving Father and I do not know one Christian who sees God as self-serving or in need to demand glory, that was the adversary who wanted all glory and you should know that. David loved the Lord, he was musical and was constantly praising him as he felt the blessings of God in his life, it an example we should strive for. I love the Psalms! Contemporary praise music is what brought my husband to Christ, it literally be an instrument that can transform one’s heart and soul, so let us all find it in our hearts to praise our Lord and God, even if we can’t sing… and even in the empty and dry times try to find something to praise Him for. It can change your life. Most Christians DO see God as a very loving Father as it is all over the scriptures, so please watch what you say, Ray. [Long list edited by Moderator -Valoel]
[Please keep the discussion tied to the topic. This should not develop into an off-topic argument between two users, thanks -Valoel]
Wow, that’s a lot of scriptural references, LadyWisdom. That must have taken time for you to provide all that… thanks for sharing for the benefit of our discussion on loving God. I’m sure Ray can respond and speak for himself, just from my viewpoint on reading his response and your strong words directed back to him… I took Ray’s comments less along the lines of putting other churches down that they don’t love God, but just more of his feeling that the mormon church to him has a personal loving relationship on the mission that God has, which is all done out of love for us and less for His Glory (although it certainly is All Glory to His Name!). That was just my take.
I have visited many other congregations in my neighborhood, and my best friend is non-mormon and teaches me more about God’s love than I get when I go to Sunday school sometimes, so I definitely see the love other churches have. I have also seen sometimes fear of God and a mysterious God taught, which when I heard that, made me feel more at “home” in the LDS church. I like to think of Christ’s gospel as a message of love, not one of fear. I get the impression most of my non-mormon friends view it that way too.
Lady Wisdom, I was talking ONLY about the theology, NOT about how anyone in any church feels or acts or loves – and most certainly NOT about God Himself.I was NOT talking about “the God of the Book of Mormon” or “the God of the Bible” or anything like that. I agree 100% with every scripture you quoted – that the Bible desribes God constantly in terms of love. I kept mentioning “theology”specifically to try to stress that I wasn’t talking about people and churches at the practical level – but ONLY about how God is described in the official theology of the mainstream Christian denominations. People act and believe very differently than the official theology of their religions and denominations, as all of us have seen inside and outside the LDS Church – and the VAST majority of Christians love God every bit as much as I do. I didn’t mean in ANY way to imply otherwise. Again, I was talking ONLY about theology, NOT people – and really not even about other churches at the practical level.I have nothing but respect, admiration and love for others who worship God in their own way. I would never intentionally insult or degrade others who worship differently than I do. I have said repeatedly that people should worship wherever and in whatever way brings them joy and peace. I have lived all over the United States; I’m not saying what I’m saying as a life-long Utah Mormon who doesn’t know any better and is being “holier than thou”. I’m speaking as someone who has studied and discussed official theology extensively. I thought that was obvious from everything I’ve written here and elsewhere.
Fwiw, I reached my conclusions about the theological differences from decades of study and worship and friendship and deep discussions with MANY Christians friends and co-workers and fellow students and professors and acquaintances whom I love dearly.
I tried to make that clear. I obviously failed. For that, I apologize.
However, I stand by my belief that the way God is interpreted in official Mormon theology is FAR more loving (particularly in terms of parental love) in my mind than the way He is described in official Protestant theology – and especially Calvinism. This will be an oversimplification, but allowing children to progress and become like Himself versus allowing children to never progress beyond childish adulation are two very different things – and that basic concept is what gets us labeled as non-Christian more than anything else we believe and teach. We believe that the love of God is manifest in His willingness to share His ultimate glory and power and authority and essence with us in a very real and physical way – and we are rejected as Christian because of that belief.
I believe strongly that the vision of God, the Father, I just explained is absolutely central to the description of God, the Father, and God, the Son, that we have in the Bible – and that it is the heart of the Gospel (the “Good News”) of Jesus Christ. How I and any other Christian (or even non-Christian who believes in God) views and loves God is NOT the issue I am addressing here; it is ONLY how God is described in the official theology of the denominations I am addressing – and many other Christians reject Mormons as not being Christian specifically because of those theological differences. That’s not a condemnation of them or their churches in ANY way; it’s merely a statement about the practical effect of their creeds.
Heber, Just want to say I really like your posts, especially some of your latest comments on the Gift of the Holy Ghost thread, I think the gospel is very simple and it is almost as simple as that story. Wanted to share something. [Moderated: No long sermons please, thanks. -Valoel]
So Heber it is really simple, as Jesus told us that the greatest commandments are to Love God and Love One Another! Be kind and loving, serve each other with compassion like you do and you are headed in the right direction! When we love others with true compassion, we are showing other’s God’s love!
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