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A young evangelical pastor has ignited a firestorm by teaching what might rightly be called Mormon doctrine. I thought some of you might find this interesting as I did. Article:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/no-hell-below-us-evangelical-pastor-stirs-theological-turmoil-with-new-afterlife-arguments/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/no-hell-below-us-evangelical-pastor-stirs-theological-turmoil-with-new-afterlife-arguments/ Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ev4VdNbBPA&feature=player_embedded ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ev4VdNbBPA&feature=player_embedded How many Gods there are, and how many places there are in their kingdoms, is not for me to say; but I can say this, which is a source of much comfort, consolation, and gratification to me: Behold the goodness, the long-suffering, the kindness, and the strong parental feeling of our Father and God in preparing the way and providing the means to save the children of men—not alone the Latter-day Saints—not alone those who have the privilege of the first principles of the celestial law, but to save all.
It is a universal salvation—a universal redemption.(J of D, 8:35) The names of every son and daughter of Adam arealreadywritten in the Lamb’s Book of Life . Is there ever a time when they will be taken out of it? Yes, when they become sons of perdition, and not till then. Every person has the privilege of retaining it there for ever and ever. If they neglect that privilege, then their names will be erased, and not till then. All the names of the human family are written there, and the Lord will hold them there until they come to the knowledge of the truth, that they can rebel against him, and can sin against the Holy Ghost; then they will be thrust down to hell, and their names be blotted out from the Lamb’s Book of Life (DBY, 387–88). It will be a pleasure to know that we have saved all the Father gave into our power [stewardship]. Jesus said that he lost none except the sons of perdition. He will lose none of his brethren, except sons of perdition. Let us save all the Father puts in our power (DBY, 388).
Our religion is adapted to the capacity of the whole human family. It does not send a portion of the people to howl in torment for ever and ever, but it reaches after the last son and daughter of Adam and Eve, and will pluck them from the prison, unlock the doors, and burst the bonds and bring forth every soul who will receive salvation (DBY, 389).
All heaven is anxious that the people should be saved. The heavens weep over the people, because of their hard-heartedness, unbelief, and slowness to believe and act (DBY, 388–89).
When God revealed to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon that there was a place prepared for all, according to the light they had received and their rejection of evil and practice of good, it was a great trial to many, and some apostatized because God was not going to send to everlasting punishment heathens and infants, but had a place of salvation, in due time, for all, and would bless the honest and virtuous and truthful, whether they ever belonged to any church or not.
It was a new doctrine to this generation, and many stumbled at it(DBY, 390–91). http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=af59cb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=88021b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=af59cb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=88021b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD Quotes excerpted from offical church publication
He is subjecting himself to a lot of criticism. That’s brave. Yeah – he’s getting ridiculed by a lot of the same evangelist churches and “research ministries” that routinely attack the LDS church. His teachings don’t really align perfectly with what we teach but he’s closer to us than he is to the mainstream of his own sect. I really enjoy studying theology exploring the evolution of our religious ideas. I think Bell and others like him have the potential to reshape some of the most literal-thinking Christian sects in America. It will be fascinating to see! (Sorry, I’m a nerd that way….)
it is pretty obvious that our father wouldn’t abandon us to endless torture and hellfire. Would you do that to your own children? Good for Rob Bell. Good for telling the truth. Shame on the dogged traditionalists. Hell is now if its ever. Be saved and enter Heaven now and forever. “What kind of God is a being we need to be rescued from?”
Five years ago I wouldn’t answered “I know” to the question he poses “Who really knows what you have to do to go to heaven?”. The answer would have been “anyone who has prayed sincerely about the BoM”. Now, I’m not sure anyone knows for sure. I’m not even sure if God tells us absolute truth. In fact, I think He may well point us to paths that will bring us the most net good over the long term, and that may mean I’m a Mormon, and you’re a Jew. And if that means I go forward believing the LDS Church is the only true Church on the faith of the earth, then he’s OK with it, even though it may not be — what matters is the net good for me in the end.
Again, scary thoughts arisin’.
I love this “feel good” spirituality. I am also aware of many scriptures that are not very nice (wicked people go to hell etc.). I tend to just ignore them and take for my thesis statement that God is love and He will guide my heart. But I can see that many who view the Bilble as God’s Word and infallible would claim that Rob and others like him are being deceived and are being led gently by silken cords down to hell. I attended a sermon at one of the local churches in town a few months ago to support a friend who was giving the sermon. The topic he had been assigned was based on a couple of passages from the Old and New Testaments, and his sermon title was, “Being Nice is Not Enough”. It was an excellent sermon, and the main point was that we all need something to use as our foundational standards that we uphold as good, right and true. Essentially, he said that we simply have to stand for something – and that we can’t accept the spirit of the Bible without trying to distinguish between acceptable actions and unacceptable actions. Of course, making that distinction can be very hard for many people, but drawing a line is an important part of the Gospel as taught in our scriptures.
Yes, love does win – absolutely. What “love” means, however, is the real billion dollar question.
Quote:“What kind of God is a being we need to be rescued from?”
Amen, Tom. That says so concisely why I can’t stand the traditional Protestant depiction of God, the Father. Jesus’ mission wasn’t to rescue us from God’s impending punishment, but even too many Mormons have bought into that apostate philosophy. Rather, imo, it was to “make us free” to grow and become and fulfill the measure of our creation. I really love that particular concept – fulfilling the measure of our creation.
Old-Timer wrote:Jesus’ mission wasn’t to rescue us from God’s impending punishment, but even too many Mormons have bought into that apostate philosophy.
Great point.
By the way, what we are talking about in this thread is called Universalism, the idea that God’s work will not be done until all his children are brought back to his bosom.
I can’t stop watching the trailer for the new book. Thanks M&G. Rob Bell speaks well — I can tell he’s intentionally being theatric, but the message is compelling. And at a glance, consistent with my developing view that our final assignment to kingdoms may well NOT be permanent. And also, that no one knows for sure what is truth regarding the next life. I know Christianity (and Mormonism in particular) has never preached it, but have always wondered if we aren’t given multiple turns on this planet. SilentDawning wrote:I can’t stop watching the trailer for the new book. Thanks M&G. Rob Bell speaks well — I can tell he’s intentionally being theatric, but the message is compelling. And at a glance, consistent with my developing view that our final assignment to kingdoms may well NOT be permanent. And also, that no one knows for sure what is truth regarding the next life.
I know what you mean
Brown wrote:I know Christianity (and Mormonism in particular) has never preached it, but have always wondered if we aren’t given multiple turns on this planet.
Early brethren, Brigham Young specifically, taught that souls would be given as long as it takes for each one individually to come unto Christ. Whether this is a mortal or spirit world experience is a matter of conjecture but some refer to it as “recycling of souls”.I don’t see how you could get the full experience here on earth if you only lived one life. How can a man truly every know what being a woman is like? How can a rich white guy ever know what a poor minority feels like. How can a poor person understand the challenges of greed and corruption that come with power and money? If we are to become like Christ we need to experience it all. Perhaps our spirits are capable of living in multiple bodies at once. Maybe there really aren’t that many of us after all. Too far out there?
We just don’t know…..and that is where I have come to rest. I did have powerful spiritual experiences when I was younger that convinced me to join the Church, but now…..I’m not sure anymore. Anything is possible in the absence of clear, irrefutable evidence. So, I rely on my spiritual feelings that I’m headed in the approximate right direction — or, at least, WAS in the right direction for the last 3 decades or so.
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