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DarkJedi wrote:
I wouldn’t have guessed there isn’t that much difference between and 18-year-old and a 19-year-old.
And I will note that in my ward we have had Sisters since the change. They have done some wonderful things for the ward. But I can tell you that I was working close with them and there were several missteps over the last few years that I have to stop myself and say, “would my son or daughter that was in High School just a year earlier been doing any better?” I generally think, “well I know my kid and yep – I can see them making that bad call.” Nothing huge, but just noticeable. But I am still for the change.Quote:whereas no one will second-guess LDS women that don’t want to serve a mission the way they typically do for young men.
Speaking from only 3 girls I have observed (not a sweeping research), there are affects coming down. Both from Guy and Gals – Missions are becoming the mating dating platform. So many of them are clubbing around in an LDS way. My husband and I watched it at a recent baptism, they even kind of squeal and jump up and down when they see each other – No exaggeration.
Of the 3 girls – one was preparing her papers, in my mind she never seemed like the kind to serve a mission. She loves the church, she is a total homebody, she and her mom are daycare afficianado’s – so Mission just seemed way off. Well sure enough on the final dentist appt. she heard a prompting not to go. And as her mom tells it, “The next week she walked into Sacrament Meeting and there was Patrick.”
6 weeks later they were married. She’d never met him before. Neither of them had jobs to support themselves, he was still just beginning college, so they moved in and lived with her family for the past year and a half. – Pressure to Marry or Mission. Still on.
Likewise a young convert girl. A year after joining the church, went on a mission to Phillipines. End goal get a man. She almost has. He does still need a visa. Her parents (non-members) have never met him, they are engaged. Getting married as soon as he gets his paperwork in order. Their courtship – face book and the mission field.
Finally my daughter. I have a TBM daughter, with some nuance. While at BYU she prayed and felt a mission wasn’t for her. She graduated three years ago. She is living 4 states away on her own. Loves the church, attends the YA ward and events religiously, and texts me last week during Sacrament Meeting. Could we talk? She wants to go through the temple. She feels like God can’t help her answer her life questions until she does. Now she does Baptisms for the dead nearly weekly on her day off. She knows her dad will flip when he finds out. She doesn’t want to cause a lot of fuss. And she isn’t sure about garments. But the temple is the next step.
I see it from her point of view, she is 26 and will likely not marry for a while, all of her closest friends are married, RM’s and popping babies. It hurts she doesn’t fit the mold for all the righteousness she has done. Her family is unorthodox and broken by LDS standards she is looking for normality, I am just not sure this is it.So the girls are getting pressure. It will only grow, someone will give a talk, someone will write a poem and suddenly, they’ll get it, too.
One More Thing – Social – Cultural Maturity I have a nephew who is in South America. He waited until after his freshman year at the Y – which I applaud. He’s a good kid. Yet reading his letters, his dad and I cringe. He makes horrid remarks about the people he meets. Jokes about how they celebrate their holidays, or snide observations about them. At first I thought it was him. Then I listened to an RM speak in our ward and I was mortified. These guys may have the discussions memorized, know how to knock on a door – but cultural appreciation is not on the list. Couple that with natural immaturity and it’s a humdinger.
My last point, – When my husband served his mission a part of the experience was life experience, cooking your own food, grocery shopping, fixing your car/bike, budgeting. From what our friends who house the missionaries tell us, that isn’t happening, at least in our area. The sisters or elders live in someone’s home, but they pay no rent, they buy no groceries, they don’t cook or clean there (much). We have a basket in the library for non-dinner foods, that is generously filled with cereal, snacks, popcorn. The feeding calendar goes around all the time. Ward members drive them everywhere. Soo – Life skills none. Just last week donations for new chest of drawers and bed were requested with the added comment, “We want them to feel like they are at home.” So – it’s a two year vacation. Bed and Breakfast.
Maybe each mission is different but that life education part is also missing in my local area.
P.S. I didn’t serve a mission because I knew I couldn’t handle it.
mom3 wrote:One More Thing – Social – Cultural Maturity
I have a nephew who is in South America. He waited until after his freshman year at the Y – which I applaud. He’s a good kid. Yet reading his letters, his dad and I cringe. He makes horrid remarks about the people he meets. Jokes about how they celebrate their holidays, or snide observations about them. At first I thought it was him. Then I listened to an RM speak in our ward and I was mortified. These guys may have the discussions memorized, know how to knock on a door – but cultural appreciation is not on the list. Couple that with natural immaturity and it’s a humdinger.
My last point, – When my husband served his mission a part of the experience was life experience, cooking your own food, grocery shopping, fixing your car/bike, budgeting. From what our friends who house the missionaries tell us, that isn’t happening, at least in our area. The sisters or elders live in someone’s home, but they pay no rent, they buy no groceries, they don’t cook or clean there (much). We have a basket in the library for non-dinner foods, that is generously filled with cereal, snacks, popcorn. The feeding calendar goes around all the time. Ward members drive them everywhere. Soo – Life skills none. Just last week donations for new chest of drawers and bed were requested with the added comment, “We want them to feel like they are at home.” So – it’s a two year vacation. Bed and Breakfast.
Maybe each mission is different but that life education part is also missing in my local area.
P.S. I didn’t serve a mission because I knew I couldn’t handle it.
Not to take away from your valid point (at least for some missionaries). I had a son that went to a not terribly poor part of South America and he gained some life skills and has never said a negative thing about the culture he served in. In fact he only spoke positive. But he was always a very mature and positive kid. I have a son on a mission stateside now and it is a bit of an easier mission as far as the domestic duties, such as he drove a car most of his mission. Dang – I sound like I am bragging (I guess I am, but that was not my point). So I guess your mileage may vary depending on which mission you go to.BTW – The “lodging” is paid centrally so that families and missionaries can budget better. That helps balance out someone going to Tokyo (where you could spend quite a bit) and the person living in a donated 5-th wheel RV in the middle of South Dakoda pay the same per month. Even on my mission back a few decades ago we actually did this because even in our mission there was quite a difference in the cost of housing.
mom3 wrote:My last point, – When my husband served his mission a part of the experience was life experience, cooking your own food, grocery shopping, fixing your car/bike, budgeting. From what our friends who house the missionaries tell us, that isn’t happening, at least in our area. The sisters or elders live in someone’s home, but they pay no rent, they buy no groceries, they don’t cook or clean there (much). We have a basket in the library for non-dinner foods, that is generously filled with cereal, snacks, popcorn. The feeding calendar goes around all the time. Ward members drive them everywhere. Soo – Life skills none. Just last week donations for new chest of drawers and bed were requested with the added comment, “We want them to feel like they are at home.” So – it’s a two year vacation. Bed and Breakfast.
Interesting point. I did serve a mission in the days before the standardized monthly amount. That is to say, were i called to Mexico I would only have needed about $50 a month while if I were called to Alaska I would have needed about $500/mo. I ended up being called to an in between place (about $250/mo.) but that was dependent on my rent (different apartments were different amounts and we didn’t choose where we lived), whether or not we had a car (we had to buy our own gas), how much we were invited to dinner (which was not emphasized at the time so once or twice a week was average), etc. Basically my mission money was in my account and I had responsibility to make it last for the full time. There was no allowance on a debit card given me monthly – it was all up to me.
Fast forward 30 years and my own son is serving (in South America). I am sure with the cost of living there that his mission costs way less than $400/mo., but I’m OK with that because I would have liked having the standard amount back in the day and don’t mind that I’m really subsidizing others. However, he just told me that at their last zone conference the MP talked to them about budgeting their money and told them that just because they have this monthly allowance doesn’t mean they have to spend it all. He said his whole message to them was about personal fiscal responsibility. My son also did a year at BYU (the age change came his first semester there) where he was responsible to pay part of his housing and food. Our deal is they have to have half of the money to fund their missions. He does, and he has always been fiscally responsible – but it didn’t occur to me until now that most of them aren’t and have never had to be. They are fed by members daily there, so they spend little on food. He always has a balance in his account (we can see the weekly email) which is sometimes substantive (relatively).
I’m sure this was an unintended consequence – but a consequence it is. I will,of course, note that in the old days there were “rich” and “poor” missionaries, with the “rich” having a pretty much unlimited supply of money from Mom and Dad. On the other hand, there is nothing that prevents us from giving extra money to our son at any time – he has his debit card and all we have to do is put money in his account at the local bank.
As a side note, my son does like the people and culture where he is and generally speaks positively about the place and people (although he is a bit tired of rice and beans). I think a bunch of that is dependent on the individual. We used to have a friend in our ward (he moved away) who served in Japan and hated it. Even years after being back – and we had another man in the ward who loved it there – he never had anything good to say and badmouthed their traditions and food all he time.
Quote:The “lodging” is paid centrally so that families and missionaries can budget better.
Which family are we talking about – the missionaries family at home or the family he is residing. Because in our friends case, they never received a dime of rent or anything relative to it.
Thanks DJ and LH for chiming in. I wonder if my nephew is immature or maybe he thinks he’s funny. His pictures all look like he’s happy – maybe I just don’t understand his letters. Glad to hear from other dads.
I loved Japan. Just had to say that. 
mom3 wrote:I wonder if my nephew is immature or maybe he thinks he’s funny. His pictures all look like he’s happy – maybe I just don’t understand his letters.
Consider this…
What’s the age where they let people rent cars without jumping through all kinds of hoops and incurring all kinds of pricey penalties? The car rental industry has a lot more metrics to work with than I do and they typically set the hassle free rental age at about the same age that men are considered too old to serve a LDS mission. Hertz has raised the maturity bar higher than god.
Point is, and I can say this because I owned this, men are stupid at that age. Sure we all have varying levels of stupid… but we’re all stupid. A few things:
1) Missions have their own unique culture, it may be more exaggerated on foreign missions but every mission has it’s own culture. People are often fearful or can be mocking of the things that they don’t understand… Like me and some of the stuff that I see coming out of Japan.
I got the whole culture shock when I arrived. There were things that I liked but there were also things about the culture that seemed ridiculous. Rome appears very strange when you grow up in Sandy, UT but eventually the “when in Rome” factor kicks in. The culture shock in arriving in the field was expected, I had braced for the impact beforehand and over time I acclimated. What I didn’t expect was the culture shock when I came back home. That culture shock was much, much bigger. I saw my birth culture from the perspective of an outsider. There were things that I liked but there were also things about the culture that seemed ridiculous. It was eye opening, the first several months after returning home were difficult.
2) To this day I’m
stilllearning lessons from my mission. I was an older missionary, just setting out at an age where most kids had already finished serving, but I was still immature. It’s one of those experiences I often look back on and wish I had done things differently. I don’t let it get me down though, I believe it’s a better alternative than looking back and not finding anything that I’d do differently. If he’s a young pup on the mission he’ll change. He may even start to espouse some of the cultural behaviors that he once found foolish. Be patient, it might take him a decade or more after his mission to learn some important lessons. At the very least the mission gave him lots of “I was an idiot” moments (aka life experience) to reflect back on.
mom3 wrote:P.S. I didn’t serve a mission because I knew I couldn’t handle it.
I felt the same, you’re not alone.
Your comments about other cultures are spot on.
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