Lurker Exposed!!!

[Anonymous]

Welcome!

I give a flashlight to every little kid I know when they get baptized. I tell them that a flashlight is a lot like the holy ghost — it helps you find the right path in the dark.

The idea of us all hanging out with our flashlights is a great image ..

My daughter married 18 months ago. She wanted to go through the temple in advance .. To understand the ceremony. It wasn’t allowed. She took out her endowments 3 days before her wedding. She was floored by the ceremony. Stunned. And appalled. She walked away feeling that her way into heaven was dependent on her husband — that in the eyes of the church, her husband stands between her and God.

I wish she had been allowed to take out her endowments far in advance, and THEN decide whether or not to choose a temple wedding.

There is a lot of social pressure involved with the wedding invitations out, the wedding planned, and THEN going through the temple without an idea of what you are expected to promise. To have to tell non-LDS family that they cannot be there, when you yourself really don’t know what you are signing up for .. That is a lot to ask a person.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Welcome, welcome. Although I hope you don’t make a habit of “exposing” yourself.

Thank you, Roy! I’ll try and cover up every once in a while.

Thanks, amateurparent! I liked and agree with everything you said, especially the part about the social pressures of weddings.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dontknow, I just joined recently. I am a convert, so I never really liked the families are forever concept when it is taken at face value because obviously people who are culturally LDS would have a huge advantage. You don’t have to have deconstructed a lot to see that a person’s acceptance of the Gospel is a lot easier if they are surrounded by faithful family members in Utah vs. some convert’s spouse or parent or adult child who is a devoted follower of another religion. This is one of those teachings in the Church that works in a closed society where everyone is LDS and of similar ethnicity and pioneer ancestry and where it is hard to leave because of a hostile outside world. I have noticed that in the two decades since I got baptized, the Church has been softening these kinds of teachings because they can’t be so easily applied to the situations of converts and lifelong members who are not multigenerational.

Temple sealing vs. civil wedding: the Church always likes to align its practices with the practices of the world whenever possible because that way people who are more literal minded simply associate the higher concept with the lower concept. (You can see this in the practice of promoting priesthood leaders who are more affluent or educated so the hierarchy mirrors social stratification.) I am not rationalizing this or saying it’s spiritually correct, just saying that’s what the Church likes to do. I believe the Church wants sexual experience and the Temple sealing to coincide for the first time for both. Sex is a surreal experience, and so is the Temple endowment/sealing to a lesser degree. This is why in those countries where a civil wedding is mandated by law, the Church wants its members to not consummate the marriage until after the sealing. If they approve the separation of civil vs. sealing here in the U.S., no doubt the Church will require you to turn around and get sealed immediately.

I have had the faith crises (plural). To really progress spiritually, we have to confront our worst fears–like what if the Church is completely a fraud and participation in it is completely useless? I don’t think it is useless or a fraud, but I am glad that I got over the fear of thinking about that long ago.

[Anonymous]

convert1992,

First off, welcome to StayLDS! I’m glad you are here, you seem very insightful.

I agree with you, the “families are forever” concept only works for the “perfect” LDS family. I love the concept though. Once you get past the “what-ifs” about your family, it’s a wonderful belief/hope our church has. I’m glad the Church teaches it.

convert1992 wrote:

If they approve the separation of civil vs. sealing here in the U.S., no doubt the Church will require you to turn around and get sealed immediately.

Yes, there is definitely going to be a time limit if it gets approved, like 72 hours or something. But, why don’t they allow worthy couples who get married outside of the temple to get sealed immediately? I know the Church urges worthy members to married in the temple only. Did the policy get implemented because of worthy members choosing to get married outside of the temple first? If so, I can see why the church leaders have been iffy on changing the policy.

Thanks for replying, convert1992! I really appreciate it!

[Anonymous]

Quote:

“But, why don’t they allow worthy couples who get married outside of the temple to get sealed immediately?”

(By the way you can just call me Tom, my real name.) I don’t know … it really frustrates me that on so many issues like this the Church just leaves it to us to speculate about the reasons. That hurts the Church in the long run because the antis come up with really dark theories. I think the most plausible spiritual reason is that they don’t want the whole concept of marriage to get associated in your mind with the conventions of the world–picture in your mind the whole image of the “wedding” with the cake and the flowers and the silly vows (of course, they’re not silly, I’m just trying to put myself in the mindset of Temple-is-superior-to-worldly-wedding) and the bridesmaids with their matching dresses. But wait … all of that is present at the reception (except for the vows) and of course there are many people who don’t really have a spiritual/testimony level of understanding of the Temple.

I almost did not join the Church because of the rule against anyone who is not “worthy” being able to witness the sealing. You cannot expect an investigator to have a witness of the Temple much less being willing right away to ditch mom and dad. And I’m a guy … just imagine what a normal young woman in her 20’s would feel … and we wonder why usually it’s quirky people who are willing to join the Church (in contrast to LDS videos that always depict converts as conventional people … LOL).

[Anonymous]

convert1992 wrote:

Quote:

“But, why don’t they allow worthy couples who get married outside of the temple to get sealed immediately?”

(By the way you can just call me Tom, my real name.) I don’t know … it really frustrates me that on so many issues like this the Church just leaves it to us to speculate about the reasons. That hurts the Church in the long run because the antis come up with really dark theories. I think the most plausible spiritual reason is that they don’t want the whole concept of marriage to get associated in your mind with the conventions of the world–picture in your mind the whole image of the “wedding” with the cake and the flowers and the silly vows (of course, they’re not silly, I’m just trying to put myself in the mindset of Temple-is-superior-to-worldly-wedding) and the bridesmaids with their matching dresses. But wait … all of that is present at the reception (except for the vows) and of course there are many people who don’t really have a spiritual/testimony level of understanding of the Temple.

I almost did not join the Church because of the rule against anyone who is not “worthy” being able to witness the sealing. You cannot expect an investigator to have a witness of the Temple much less being willing right away to ditch mom and dad. And I’m a guy … just imagine what a normal young woman in her 20’s would feel … and we wonder why usually it’s quirky people who are willing to join the Church (in contrast to LDS videos that always depict converts as conventional people … LOL).

I wonder if the huge increase in sister missionaries, women endowed before marriage, women who can participate in (proxy) sealings prior to their own, will result in more of them making the choice to be married civilly and sealed later. I realize this is partly my prejudice speaking, but all I can say is that I was hugely disappointed by the sealing ceremony itself. And since we didn’t have money, time or use for a big “wedding-ish” reception, the day was very subdued.

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