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I just wanted to comment to those thinking of leaving the church please reconsider. As stated on the “church is true ” website Mormonism is a big tent and their are many ways for someone to stay if they really want to. Sometimes you have to fight for your testimony or your faith altogether, the adversary never stops trying to convince people to leave . I have found as I went through my faith crisis that all churches have a history and almost all the time they have a dark side . Churches are run by men that are imperfect not to say that the LDS church is imperfect but it is run by men who are and yes even the prophet can and does make mistakes . The church has admitted to some mistakes and in the future they will admit to more but your faith can be perfect !!!!!!!!!! It is up to you to develop your faith simply put you get out of it what you put into it !! What worked for me is to not read scripture like a history book but read it as inspired works to bring you closer to the Savoir . I believe the BOM is an 18th century work by Joseph Smith but I believe it is inspired by God to bring people to Jesus !!!!!! I have seen the BOM change lives so I know it is inspired work. Joseph Smith was not perfect he made lots of mistakes but you have to remember he was a imperfect man like all of us. My point is sometimes you really need to look beyond what is presented as false and use your faith and fight for your testimony , for those who want to stay LDS it is always possible. I also wanted to say in my original post that although you do not need to read scripture as literal but metaphorical this way is easier for me with the BOM and you can still get the same spiritual affect as intended. The whole point is once again if you want to stay LDS you can find a way . Thank You. One of the things that surprised me after going through a FC was how many positions have been held and defended by various church leaders over the years. I can cobble together from these leaders a more or less coherent belief system. In order to make this work I find that I need to ignore some positions held and defended by other church leaders. I have done this successfully and am my own brand of Mormon in isolation. The difficulty comes in a SS setting. Sometimes, individuals are very sure of their perspective and find it a slippery slope to even consider other viewpoints. The tightrope walk is how to be your own brand of Mormon when others tell you that your beliefs are not compatible with Mormonism as they understand it. I can retreat to the words of church leaders past and present that give validation to my feelings. I can take refuge at this site and know that there is more than one right way to be a Mormon… but that doesn’t make the problem go away. There will always be a hardliner that subtlety or not so subtlety lets you know that you do not belong here. jgaskill, I don’t disagree with much of what you said. The thing is that I keep going back to the fact that it shouldn’t be this painful to be part of the “true church” and that it shouldn’t be this difficult to worship a loving Heavenly Father. If you knew me you’d know that I’m still “all in” – but every year I get more tired and every time I hear that the Gospel has caveats my pathway gets steeper and rockier.
Jgaskill: What are the positives of Staying LDS? I’m having a very hard time seeing any.
I’m still affiliated to support my DH and teenage DD, but the more I learn, the less I like.
Belief in God? Yep. Belief in a higher power? Absolutely! Continued affiliation with the religion I grew up with? Why? I’m having a rough time finding any reason to hang in there.
I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
amateurparent wrote:Jgaskill:
What are the positives of Staying LDS? I’m having a very hard time seeing any.
I’m still affiliated to support my DH and teenage DD, but the more I learn, the less I like.
Belief in God? Yep. Belief in a higher power? Absolutely! Continued affiliation with the religion I grew up with? Why? I’m having a rough time finding any reason to hang in there.
I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
Culture, community, my family. For me that’s about it.
GBSmith wrote:amateurparent wrote:Jgaskill:
What are the positives of Staying LDS? I’m having a very hard time seeing any.
I’m still affiliated to support my DH and teenage DD, but the more I learn, the less I like.
Belief in God? Yep. Belief in a higher power? Absolutely! Continued affiliation with the religion I grew up with? Why? I’m having a rough time finding any reason to hang in there.
I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
Culture, community, my family. For me that’s about it.
I agree with GBSmith, and I think Jgaskill’s message is the same as Pres. Uchtdorf’s:
Quote:In spite of our human imperfections, I am confident that you will find among the members of this Church many of the finest souls this world has to offer. The Church of Jesus Christ seems to attract the kind and the caring, the honest and the industrious.
If you expect to find perfect people here, you will be disappointed. But if you seek the pure doctrine of Christ, the word of God “which healeth the wounded soul,” and the sanctifying influence of the Holy Ghost, then here you will find them. In this age of waning faith—in this age when so many feel distanced from heaven’s embrace—here you will find a people who yearn to know and draw closer to their Savior by serving God and fellowmen, just like you. Come, join with us!
amateurparent wrote:I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
I cannot make a list for you, I can only make one for me:
1) I have relationships here that I will never have anywhere else. It is the spiritual home of all my family and friends.
2) I appreciate the unique teachings that I see as more expansive than most Christian theology.
3) The difficult path requires me to become stronger than an easy path would.
4) The deeper the problems go the more meaningful the solutions become.
amateurparent wrote:I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
There are pros and cons for every religion. For me it comes down to barriers to entry and barriers to exit.
For me there is a short of connectedness and acceptance with extended family that seems to be in direct proportion to LDS-ness. This can be good and wonderful when you are on the inside…isolating and lonely when you are on the outside. By staying LDS on my own terms I can form as sort of a buffer generation for my own children. Should they choose the LDS path, we have not severed those connections and can easily support them in that. Should they choose a different path then we are prepared to give them a stable, supportive, and accepting home environment with a moral upbringing without too much emphasis on LDS dogma.
I can offer them some of the benefits of a multi-generational heritage religion (love, belonging, connectedness) without the stark conditions of them following the one true path.
P.S. It is entirely possible that I am just trying to justify my current practice. Like most of us, I do the best I can with what I am given and rationalize it after the fact to help me feel better about my decisions.
I love what I see as the core theology. No other theology, except aspects of Buddhism that are similar in interesting ways, moves me like my view of Mormon theology.
Granted, my view is not the orthodox view – but I stopped caring about developing an orthodox view a long time ago.
Sometimes I find myself getting angry with the church and I only see the negatives. However, sometimes I’m reminded that my ward is like family and in some sense even closer than family. Sunday night I went to a Super Bowl party with several other ward members. It was tons of fun. There weren’t booze, swearing, anger, yelling – just 25 people chatting and watching the game and 25 kids running around having a blast. It was a great time and I left feeling grateful for my ward family.
The reasons I stay are to support my wife and because of the good friends I have in the church who share my values. Not very many reasons but they are BIG reasons. However, I’ve told my wife that if any of my children come out as gay that is the day I leave the church – my loyalty is not unconditional. Like others have said I’ve tried to be a buffer between the church and my kids. One daughter has already chosen to not make the church a big part of her adult life which I’m ok with.
I’m really struggling with this myself right now because it seems that almost all I can see in the church right now (especially the corporate church) is negative. I see all the poop and pee all over the floor and not the cute little puppy. I don’t want a puppy in my house! Over at NOM, they have a nice succinct page that gives some good reasons to stay. I don’t get this feeling very much from the forums over there, but even as an unbeliever, these are good reasons to stay if you can see things from a different perspective:
http://www.newordermormon.org/why-we-stay.php And then there is the document originally written by John Dehlin, and updated by Brian Johnston on How to Stay after a major challenge to your faith on staylds.com. It’s interesting that this no longer works for either of them:
http://staylds.com/docs/HowToStay.html Quote:There are two key ingredients to staying in the church: you have to like it, and you have to believe in it. If you do not like being a part of the church, this article’s suggestions will probably not change anything. Your religious life should bring you value and satisfaction. It should do something positive for you. If you like being a part of the church, but have trouble believing in it the way you used to, in a more literal way, then the suggestions in this article might be helpful.
I’m really trying to make this work. Those that have managed to do it long-term – what’s the secret? If you do not like being part of the church, is there any hope? How can I like it or even just tolerate it? All the poop and pee all over the floor is driving me nuts!
The church has good things in it that make me think and evaluate what is best for me. It stretches my thinking. It gives me opportunities to practice what I believe, instead of just thinking about what I believe. Some of my interactions are painful, but sometimes those are rewarding because opposition challenges me to handle it with charity, despite differences. I would not grow as much as a very spiritual hermit.
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:Quote:There are two key ingredients to staying in the church: you have to like it, and you have to believe in it. If you do not like being a part of the church, this article’s suggestions will probably not change anything. Your religious life should bring you value and satisfaction. It should do something positive for you. If you like being a part of the church, but have trouble believing in it the way you used to, in a more literal way, then the suggestions in this article might be helpful.
I’m really trying to make this work. Those that have managed to do it long-term – what’s the secret? If you do not like being part of the church, is there any hope? How can I like it or even just tolerate it? All the poop and pee all over the floor is driving me nuts!
I think the secret is “long-term”, but my way…not long-term tolerating pain with no reward. I honestly get rewarded in church on Sundays. Not every week. But because I keep a long-term perspective, I balance the stuff I don’t like with stuff I do like.Because I was a member my whole life, there are some things that I kind of gloss over as “ya, ya…those are good…but this other thing is TERRIBLE”.
I find it important to appreciate and be grateful for the good, to stay balanced with the good and bad. I’m grateful for a church that helps my family.
There have been times I was very angry. So…I allowed myself to be angry, and skip church, and not believe…without burning bridges or closing doors. In time, I changed…and then I was more open to seeing the good to balance the pain.
Like the article says…it is probably difficult to stay if there is just zero utility in it.
amateurparent wrote:What are the positives of Staying LDS? I’m having a very hard time seeing any.
I also am trying to look at the costs and benefits. I can see SOME benefits, but I keep wrestling with if the costs will outweigh the benefits once I “come out” a bit about my lack of belief (which I feel is only a matter of time before I can’t hold it in any longer). Am I going to be an outsider inside the church building? I don’t think I can hack that – or I don’t WANT to hack that.
Quote:And then there is the document originally written by John Dehlin, and updated by Brian Johnston on How to Stay after a major challenge to your faith on staylds.com. It’s interesting that this no longer works for either of them:
http://staylds.com/docs/HowToStay.html Quote:There are two key ingredients to staying in the church:
you have to like it, and you have to believe in it.
Interesting that these 2 are put up as the keys. I am so so on the first (probably a bit negative as I have other service I would rather give) and I can’t say I do on the latter. Thanks for sharing that. Stuff to chew on.Quote:I’m really trying to make this work. Those that have managed to do it long-term – what’s the secret? If you do not like being part of the church, is there any hope? How can I like it or even just tolerate it? All the poop and pee all over the floor is driving me nuts!
I just cleaned all 12 toilets in the church the other week, so I LITERALLY can relate to this analogy, but I get what you see. I have been trying to see some of the good as I was where you were about 3 or 4 months ago – only could see the negative. Just about when I start to make progress they go and make some policy change and just about when I can almost have a Sunday where I don’t want to run to the pulpit and say how much the policy hurts me – then it becomes “revelation” and not just policy.I too am asking “what is the secret?” I still don’t know if I have figured out the “why”.
Roy wrote:P.S. It is entirely possible that I am just trying to justify my current practice. Like most of us, I do the best I can with what I am given and rationalize it after the fact to help me feel better about my decisions.
I love the honesty! We all do it even if we don’t realize it.
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