Many ways to stay LDS

[Anonymous]

amateurparent wrote:

Jgaskill:

What are the positives of Staying LDS? I’m having a very hard time seeing any.

I’m still affiliated to support my DH and teenage DD, but the more I learn, the less I like.

Belief in God? Yep. Belief in a higher power? Absolutely! Continued affiliation with the religion I grew up with? Why? I’m having a rough time finding any reason to hang in there.

I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.

To me, “non-denominational Christianity” implies far-right Protestantism and all of the doctrines that go along with it. I have a hard time conceiving of a “non-denominational Christian” church as teaching anything other than a belief in the Trinity as defined by the early Christian creeds, the concept that we are depraved beings from the moment of birth, a belief in an eternity of hellfire and damnation for non-believers, the belief that all opportunities for a change of heart end with death, and the idea that our good works are nothing but “filthy rags” to God. Maybe you’re thinking of “non-denominational Christianity” differently than I am, but when I talk to people who claim to be non-denominational Christians, those are typically the things they believe.

I, too, am struggling with Mormonism, but maybe with different aspects of it than you are. It’s not the doctrines that bother me, but the LDS culture and the policies being established by the Church’s leadership. I still believe in the LDS doctrines of the Godhead, of a pre-mortal existence, of continued opportunities to learn and grow in the post-mortal Spirit World, and in a heaven that is big enough for pretty much everyone who has ever lived. These things ring true to be, and I want them to be true. Hence, I stay in the Church that teaches them, regardless of the fact that I come home from my meetings every Sunday confused and angry.

When I stop and think of who I am and what I have become as a result of being raised LDS, I’m grateful to have had that upbringing. I genuinely believe that I am a better person for having been raised LDS, and I feel blessed to have been raised with the beliefs I described in the previous paragraph. I just have a hard time with the self-righteousness of so many of the members and the micromanaging of my life and my choices by the Church leadership. I don’t actually run into many people like me in the Church. I haven’t even run into all that many on this forum. But at least I can speak my mind here without risking being told I need to pray, have faith and trust the Brethren.

[Anonymous]

Katzpur wrote:

To me, “non-denominational Christianity” implies far-right Protestantism and all of the doctrines that go along with it. I have a hard time conceiving of a “non-denominational Christian” church as teaching anything other than a belief in the Trinity as defined by the early Christian creeds, the concept that we are depraved beings from the moment of birth, a belief in an eternity of hellfire and damnation for non-believers, the belief that all opportunities for a change of heart end with death, and the idea that our good works are nothing but “filthy rags” to God. Maybe you’re thinking of “non-denominational Christianity” differently than I am, but when I talk to people who claim to be non-denominational Christians, those are typically the things they believe.

It almost seems like you are describing non-denominational Christianity with a negative bent. Similarly people could describe us Mormons as a massively wealthy corporate church that teaches homophobia, second class status for women (benevolent sexism), eternal polygamy (though thankfully a recent ensign article argues that polygamy is not necessarily required for exaltation), exclusivity, secret rituals, and the blasphemous audacity to claim rights God’s throne as they imagine in their hearts to sit down in it as though they were God. :sick:

I imagine that all those things are technically true about ourselves but not how we would present it. Also, when we are looking at as diverse a group as non-denominational Christianity some of these descriptions of belief might not hold true at all.

Katzpur wrote:

I still believe in the LDS doctrines of the Godhead, of a pre-mortal existence, of continued opportunities to learn and grow in the post-mortal Spirit World, and in a heaven that is big enough for pretty much everyone who has ever lived. These things ring true to be, and I want them to be true. Hence, I stay in the Church that teaches them, regardless of the fact that I come home from my meetings every Sunday confused and angry.

I am starting to look at all these things as metaphors of human expression. Is God a father being? Love the metaphor, there is so much we can do with that. Does God also include the maternal as well as the paternal? Some would say no, that he is a perfect and holy man but cannot be a woman. If however we are dealing with metaphors then God/Goddess as a woman is equally valid and allows us to explore and highlight the feminine qualities of God. Can God condescend to be himself born as a baby, to experience mortal travails, and finally to die horribly as a demonstration of love and forgiveness for his children/creation? The BOM seems to think so. We may criticize the trinity for being incomprehensible – but parts of it are truly beautiful.

I love the LDS church and the wonderful things it teaches. Unfortunately, they teach that their metaphor is the only truth and that their truth precludes any other metaphors, any other truths from being valid.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

It almost seems like you are describing non-denominational Christianity with a negative bent. Similarly people could describe us Mormons as a massively wealthy corporate church that teaches homophobia, second class status for women (benevolent sexism), eternal polygamy (though thankfully a recent ensign article argues that polygamy is not necessarily required for exaltation), exclusivity, secret rituals, and the blasphemous audacity to claim rights God’s throne as they imagine in their hearts to sit down in it as though they were God. :sick:

I imagine that all those things are technically true about ourselves but not how we would present it. Also, when we are looking at as diverse a group as non-denominational Christianity some of these descriptions of belief might not hold true at all.

I described non-denominational Christianity the way I did for one reason: I spend a lot of time on two other forums where religion in the primary topic of conversation. Most of the people on those forums who call themselves “non-denominational Christians” believe the things I said they believe. I didn’t twist their beliefs. I didn’t parody them or present them any differently than I’ve heard them presented by the people who believe them.

Quote:

I am starting to look at all these things as metaphors of human expression. Is God a father being? Love the metaphor, there is so much we can do with that. Does God also include the maternal as well as the paternal? Some would say no, that he is a perfect and holy man but cannot be a woman. If however we are dealing with metaphors then God/Goddess as a woman is equally valid and allows us to explore and highlight the feminine qualities of God. Can God condescend to be himself born as a baby, to experience mortal travails, and finally to die horribly as a demonstration of love and forgiveness for his children/creation? The BOM seems to think so.

It really doesn’t matter to me how anyone else views God. It’s not my intention to criticize anyone else’s beliefs. If I came across as doing that, I apologize.

Quote:

We may criticize the trinity for being incomprehensible – but parts of it are truly beautiful.

When you say that parts of the Trinity are “truly beautiful,” I’m not sure what, exactly, you mean. Regardless of what you’re saying, it really doesn’t matter to me what you or anybody else believes. We all have to find our own way and follow whatever teachings ring true to us.

Quote:

I love the LDS church and the wonderful things it teaches. Unfortunately, they teach that their metaphor is the only truth and that their truth precludes any other metaphors, any other truths from being valid.

Hmmm. I’ve never heard any statements from the Church’s leadership that imply that any truth at all is invalid. Maybe I’ve missed something.

[Anonymous]

Hi Katzpur. First off I respect you completely. I do get that a lot of Christian churches teach those things. I don’t think that they all emphasize them to the same degree. I suppose some Christians (especially on online boards) can be dogmatic and tactless.

Katzpur wrote:

When you say that parts of the Trinity are “truly beautiful,” I’m not sure what, exactly, you mean. Regardless of what you’re saying, it really doesn’t matter to me what you or anybody else believes. We all have to find our own way and follow whatever teachings ring true to us.

I don’t personally believe in the trinity but that doesn’t mean that I can’t find value in it as a metaphor. The tree of life chapters of Nephi talk about the “condescension of God”, how He lowered himself to be born a helpless babe and then again when He suffered Himself to be crucified. I find it beautiful to imagine that God came Himself in some form to save us from ourselves rather than God sending a volunteer to do the job.

Katzpur wrote:

Hmmm. I’ve never heard any statements from the Church’s leadership that imply that any truth at all is invalid. Maybe I’ve missed something.

There is the rub – Church leadership accepts all truth but assumes that the LDS church is the biggest repository of truth around. President Hinckley said “Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it.” He did not say bring all the good/truth that you have and we will learn from each other. He said we will add to you good with more good, more truth. He also said,”Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.”

If we look at religion as science or math (law of gravity. laws of addition) then points of doctrine will be either true or untrue. If religion is more akin to other areas of human expression such as art and storytelling then each individual can find personal value where they may. I might love the classics and you might prefer murder mysteries. More comparable to religion are those books which give us great meaning and help us to become our best selves.

I am glad you find fulfillment in LDS doctrines. I too have found them compelling and beautiful. I just am saying that I have also found meaning and beauty in some teachings from some other churches.

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