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Not sure if this is the best place for this post but I’m going to throw it up here anyway. My DW said something to me the other day that has left me thinking and I thought I would bring it up here to get everyone else’s take on it. But first a brief background.
On Monday my DW and I were driving home from a small family reunion that was held a campground about 1.5 hrs away. Small, in that it was just her parents, her 4 siblings and their spouses and of course all of the kids. This event had been causing me some stress for a while as her family is very TBM. Descendants of a prophet, both younger brothers call to the HC shortly after their missions. One was in a bishopric at 24 while his wife was RSP. The other is a bishop and was called at 32, etc., etc. Needless to say I don’t really fit in and I was dreading the possibility of several conversions regarding the church, the temple that is being build in our ward, my eldest son’s experiences in YM’s and of course the standard “what do they have you doing in the ward right now?”, not to mention the status of my employment. My wife and I were also a little worried about how much push back we were going to get from everyone as we had already stated that our family would not be driving into the city to go to church on Sunday.
Of course all of the questions came up and I did my very best to be polite and informative, while hating every minute of it. I simply don’t like to talk about church and churchy things, even when I could be considered a TBM. So I gave updates as to the temple status and the dates of open house and dedication (I have no plans to attend myself, but didn’t share that in the interests of keeping the peace). No my son was not enjoying the deacons quorum as he feels like an outsider and the other boys are very smug and condescending towards him (in his words he doesn’t feel welcome, wanted, respected or safe with those boys) and no he did not go to the scout camp this year. Of course everyone was more than willing to share all of their ideas of how to make him feel better and I politely listened even though they don’t understand my son or the group of boys he has to interact with. No I don’t have a calling right now and I don’t want one either. I don’t fit in with the ward even after 3 years of trying, so I am happy to sit back and find a dark hole that I can hide in (I didn’t mention that I stopped going to SS and EQ about 6 months ago). Once again everyone offered their advice on how I just need to serve and develop an attitude of charity to those in the ward and I would be getting along with everyone in no time at all (I didn’t even roll my eyes when they said that. But then came the topic of my employment and my current work-free status.
The thing to note is that my wife is a full time professional and since we moved to our current city 3 years ago, we decided that we would focus on her career as she has a greater earning potential and currently earns enough to support the family even without me working. My work would consist of bouncing from one temporary contract to another, allowing me to be the primary caregiver and keep our boys out of childcare. I would always ensure that I was not employed during the summer months so that I could be home with the boys and during the months that the boys were in school and I am not working I would simply be the stay-at-home parent until a contract that suited me, and the needs of my family, came up. I have no problem with this role and am very comfortable doing laundry, sweeping and mopping, and cooking all the meals. The situation works for our family.
As the Family discussed my family’s situation and what I was doing around the home it became very clear that everyone simply thought that I sat at home and did nothing all day. They also seemed to think that my wife working was only a temporary thing until I found permanent employment. This infuriated me (although I did my best not to get angry). I explained that I didn’t sit at home all day. I described my weekly schedule for house cleaning, laundry, and shopping. I told them how I help with homework and do weekly meal plans. I said that my DW helps out where she can and is always willing to help with Saturday cleaning or with folding the laundry in the evenings if I ask her to. I also said that I plan on being the secondary earner for the foreseeable future. But I could see that they just couldn’t understand my family’s situation. During this discussion my DW was off with my sons and a bunch of the cousins playing at a playground, I think the family waited to get me alone to kind of gently call me to repentance for not magnifying my calling as a father or something. Needless to say, I did not enjoy the conversation but was respectful (but blunt) during it.
Anyway, sorry for the long back story. I of course shared the details of this event with my wife and she could tell I was angry. On the way home the following day she brought it up and said this “Honey, I’m sorry that my family has such a difficult time understanding our situation but know that I know we are doing what is best for our family. Also, you have to remember that not a single person in my family has ever known anyone that was in a situation like ours. They have never known a stay-at-home dad. They have never known a wife who made more than her husband, let alone enough to support a family of 5. And while I know they love me and know that I am successful, they have never known a women who was at as high of level in her profession as I am. In fact, I don’t think they realize how ‘high up’ I am in my company. The thing to remember is that having never experienced people like us, they have no way of relating too or processing how our family dynamic works.”
That really made me think. It is difficult to understand something that you have never experienced and people often frame their interpretations through there own experiences and construct meaning from those filtered interpretations. So when I get frustrated with the fact that my in-laws view the world through very gender specific roles it is because they have never experienced anything different. So maybe if I can accept this fact, that they can’t appreciate our differences because they can’t relate to our different experiences, then maybe I can try to apply it to my ward. Maybe the members of my ward simply can’t accept me and my family because they have never known anyone similar. Maybe we are just too different from what they have experienced?
Can I absolve them of my mistreatment simply because the don’t know any better?
Thoughts?
Canucknuckle wrote:It is difficult to understand something that you have never experienced and people often frame their interpretations through there own experiences and construct meaning from those filtered interpretations.
I think you are right on with this
:thumbup: …but I’m not sure it makes family reunions any more fun, does it. It still is a sucky situation.
I suggest, even though it is hard to feel understood, you try to recognize their efforts to understand, and appreciate their attempts to make you feel welcome. Its not a perfect situation, but you can try to find the good in it, and develop your maturity to accept that some people are just different. And that’s OK.
Most importantly, you and your wife should develop a happy family. That is the priority.
Quote:Can I absolve them of my mistreatment simply because the don’t know any better?
You mean like “Father forgive them, they know not what they do?”
Y’know what? I absolutely think you have it in you to do just that. Takes effort, but if you’re a stay-at-home dad, you’re no stranger to hard work or unconditional love
mercyngrace wrote:You mean like “Father forgive them, they know not what they do?”
After I posted this the same quote popped into my head
The crazy thing is I’ve tried for over 30 years to do just this. It just becomes so exhausting. Hopefully, after I’m done with my little break from dealing with church members (i.e. not attending Sunday School, Elders Quorum, or any LDS social events) I will have the energy to do some more. Truthfully, the last 6 months have helped me and maybe in a few more months I can return to a more active role.
Absolutely. Forgive them, if you can. In a very real sense, they are not responsible for their actions. For me, it hepls to try to recall that, in spite of all our apparent differences, we all share the two most important aspects of mortality: existence and death. In other words, we’re all on the same journey and might as well cut each other some slack along the way. My hat’s off to you. Hanging out with the in-laws and holding it all together is a great character builder. I deal wiith the same issues, but to a lesser degree. It sounds like your wife is understanding and supportive.
I admire your combined resolve to decide what’s right for your family and to just do it. More power to you, but as you’ve found, the LDS culture isn’t kind to those who stick out, at least in some parts of the world.
Quote:Begin each day by saying to yourself: Today I am going to encounter people who are ungrateful, arrogant, deceitful, envious, and hostile. People have these characteristics because they do not understand what is good and what is bad. But insofar as I have comprehended the true nature of what is good, namely that it fine and noble, and the true nature of what is bad, that it is shameful, and the true nature of the person who has gone astray: that he is just like me, not only in the physical sense, but also with respect to Intelligence and having a portion of the divine–insofar as I have comprehended all this, I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no one else can involve me in what is shameful and debasing, nor can I be angry with my fellow man or hate him, for we have been made for cooperation … To hinder one another is contrary to Nature, and this is exactly what happens when we are angry and turn away from each other. — Marcus Aurelius
What a great Wife! Isn’t it great to deal with an issue like this & be insynch with your wife. I had great inlaws. They were very supportive even when I was beginning to become inactive.
They made a big difference in my life.
There are (2) sides to this issue. How are you going to treat your future inlaws when your children marry?
Life is interesting.
Mike from Milton.
The “highest” laws generally aren’t the easiest to live. Quote:“We love him, because he first loved us.”
Quote:“As I have loved you, love one another.”
In the end, the only thing we have true power to control is our own actions – and even that is limited by things within ourselves we often don’t understand. Focus on being the best example of Christ-like love you can. Everything else will be whatever it will be.
Mike wrote:How are you going to treat your future inlaws when your children marry?
Good question.
:thumbup: I hope that I will take a similar approach as my non-LDS parents. That is I will strive to appreciate them and treat them as individuals (not simply as my child’s “plus 1”, which is how I am treated). I will make a sincere effort to get to know and appreciate their personal interests and hobbies. I will not try to parent them (it’s not my job and they will be adults). I will not lecture them on gospel principles. I will appreciate that they come into my family with their own ideas and traditions and will make an effort to incorporate some of those traditions into our larger family gatherings in an effort to be inclusive. At the same time I will accept that some of my family traditions may seem weird to them and it will be okay if they don’t want to participate. If they come to me for advice or counsel I will offer it and I will make it clear that it is only my opinion and they are in no way obligated follow it. Lastly, with all of my willpower, I will allow my child and their wife to build and create the family structure, dynamic, organization, etc, etc, that they feel is best for themselves and not what I think they should do. And if by chance I have some concerns, I will privately raise them with my sons and if they say that things are fine, then I will let the issue drop. I will not confront my in-laws.
My parents have really done an excellent job doing this with my wife and all of my sibling’s spouses (even the one that I am sure they really don’t care for, but that is another story).
Greetings canuck! You touched on a subject that is very dear to me. In large part because I went through the very TBM to multi -cultural LDS journey. It is a process that can not be forced. There is actually a Canadian film which strikes very similar to my own journey of understanding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr-GBAgTjXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr-GBAgTjXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player One of my favorite movies based on one of my favorite books. The journey of a man who by accident is forced into a situation he can not escape and goes through a process of learning to accept help and certain ways of life he strongly rejected as being unfamiliar to him through the local Inuit women.
Now in my life I try to help others understand each other that are unfamiliar with each others traditions and cultures.
My own fiancé is from argentinia. Whos own culture and way of doing things even inside LDS is very different to mine.
I never even heard of Mate until I was in argentinia lol. But suffice it to say just letting down my own barriers and be open to learning and understanding with patience and love have helped us establish a strong connection and foundation.
It is far from a TBM thing. Quite a few cultures shun outside ideas and culture dufferent then thier own.
What you went through is frustrating and has merit to those feelings. Equally they ate just not used to many of these new shifts in culture and may be acting out of fear of feeling thier own culture being threatened by it.
While you can’t change how they react you can influence by not pushing views on them(not that you are) and being patient and loving along the way as they hopefully begin to open up and not feel thier culture threatened. I hope it works out. My own soon to be marriage will be a merging of cultures. I intend to do what’s best for it and not what others think is best. I hope this helps in some small way. Snow walker was touching for me in a very real way to my own situation growing up which was similar.
Canucknuckle wrote:mercyngrace wrote:You mean like “Father forgive them, they know not what they do?”
After I posted this the same quote popped into my head
The crazy thing is I’ve tried for over 30 years to do just this. It just becomes so exhausting. Hopefully, after I’m done with my little break from dealing with church members (i.e. not attending Sunday School, Elders Quorum, or any LDS social events) I will have the energy to do some more. Truthfully, the last 6 months have helped me and maybe in a few more months I can return to a more active role.
Cannucknuckle…I agree with Mercyngrace.
Yet, as you mentioned, it can be exhausting to repeatedly reanalyze hurtful comments to consider they don’t know any better.
It’s nice when you can be around someone & trust them to be kind & considerate.
When kids are rude… I tend to cut them more slack, especially little babies – if they give me a grouchy look, I don’t take it personally at all & realize they’re probably not feeling great.
I tend to expect more from adults… but in some particular aspects, as adults we are ignor-ant (only on different subjects).
I imagine this will give you good practice in valuing the kingdom of God (your own experience of what is best) over the opinion of others.
I admire your perspective on this & how supportive you & your wife have been toward each other.
The more gracefully you can handle this situation now, the more it will bless your life down the road when you have inlaw children. I am convinced of that from personal experience. So I suggest taking a very long range perspective which may help take the “ouch” out of their interactions with you. It sounds like you don’t live in the same town. If I have that right, that is a big plus for you! I’m surprised they went that route at all — implying that a stay-at-home father with kids sits around doing nothing. That cuts too close to the more traditional stay-at-home mother cultural leaning in Mormonism. They wouldn’t say that to a mother doing the same work. I sometimes wonder if my DW would have been a better provider out in the work force, and I stayed at home. It’s too late at this point to experiment.
FWIW, it’s often hard dealing with extended family for whatever reason. Hang in there. Try to live *just* far enough away to see them, but not too much
😆 afterall wrote:It sounds like you don’t live in the same town. If I have that right, that is a big plus for you!
Yes, we are fortunate that the in-laws live 2.5 hours north of us
Not that we try to avoid living in the same place. I has just worked out that way due to relocating for jobs.
Brian Johnston wrote:I’m surprised they went that route at all — implying that a stay-at-home father with kids sits around doing nothing. That cuts too close to the more traditional stay-at-home mother cultural leaning in Mormonism. They wouldn’t say that to a mother doing the same work.
That comes back to my wife’s comment. They honestly do not have any idea as to how a man could even stay at home and do the “mommy” work. It is so foreign to them that they assume that if a man is at home and not working that there must be little to nothing for him to do (other than yard work). I also think that a small part of this is that they think that if my DW is magnifying her role in the home and acting as a “mother who knows” then she is already taking care of everything in the house, plus working full time. My wife’s upbringing was very focused on the very separate roles of men and women. She had never done yard work (lawn mowing, etc) until we were married and I know that her brothers never did housework, laundry, cooking, etc.
Oh well, I do honestly love them and I know that their love for my family is sincere. After 18 years (almost) of marriage we are still working on understanding each other. I am just thankful that I only have to see my MIL and FIL every few months. As far as my BIL’s and SIL’s go, there are more good times together than bad and some siblings we enjoy spending time with more than others.
I remember when my mother began working when I was 12. My father lost a lot of money when the stock market plunged and my mother had to go to work. Many gasp of shock in our ward as well as finger pointing. It was just so new to them, unheard of. But my parents did what needed to be done. Many people have a big fear of losing thier culture they can have extreme reactions. In your situation it isn’t really uncommon anymore, but still is outside of orthodox communities. Many married couples in this econemy are finding that the wife has greater income potential.
They also realize they want a member of the family to raise the kids or can’t afford day care.
So they equally agree that it is best for the father to stay at home in this situation.
Recent articles have been written on this and the growing number of stay at home dads because of it.
Many fathers are finding they really enjoy quality time with the kids they never had before.
But it is a new situation in history and many people fear culture shifts or shock. Just have to be patient as the shock/fear subsides and hopefully they begin to look at things objectively.
Fwiw, I read the Proclamation to the World as explicitly allowing for men to stay home while their wives work. Some others here don’t see it that way, or fall back on the fact that most members don’t see it that way, but the words themselves make it very clear, imo.
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