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You may be directed to the apologists for historical and doctrinal questions
Just to be clear, the AA did NOT say this. In fact, he explicitly said the opposite and referred to it as being like an addiction – or, at least, that was the outcome of the discussion about apologetics.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:You may be directed to the apologists for historical and doctrinal questions
Just to be clear, the AA did NOT say this. In fact, he explicitly said the opposite and referred to it as being like an addiction – or, at least, that was the outcome of the discussion about apologetics.
Thanks Ray, that is correct. I think he understands that at least some apologetics can be unintentionally counter-productive.
I just wanted to give another update. The AA gave me some things to read that went into some additional advice that might be helpful. I will try to summarize the best I can: - Accept that life has ambiguity. We don’t often have full information and the information we have comes from imperfect sources.
Ultimate truth comes from God. Relying on what we perceive to be facts alone for truths about spiritual matters can be painful and frustrating.
We should judge all facts with caution.
Make allowances for human imperfections.
We should examine motives and character of those providing facts.
Give weight to the past experiences we have had that would relate.
DT, That’s all very good advice.
I would add that religion is subjective. When I was a believer, I thought I was being objective about it. Now that I’m an Atheist, I think I’m being objective about it. But the reality is that I was/am probably wrong either way; it is subjective.
On Own Now wrote:DT,
That’s all very good advice.
I would add that religion is subjective. When I was a believer, I thought I was being objective about it. Now that I’m an Atheist, I think I’m being objective about it. But the reality is that I was/am probably wrong either way; it is subjective.
Don’t pick ether believer or Atheist. Become an agnostic. The most honest of answers. Ambiguity at its core.
🙂 I didn’t pick Atheism… it picked me. This is great to read. Am really encouraged by this On Own Now wrote:DT,
That’s all very good advice.
I would add that religion is subjective. When I was a believer, I thought I was being objective about it. Now that I’m an Atheist, I think I’m being objective about it. But the reality is that I was/am probably wrong either way; it is subjective.
Yes, it is subjective. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid source of truth for us individually. I doubt any of us can ever be truly objective about everything.
On Own Now wrote:I didn’t pick Atheism… it picked me.
I take a different approach. I choose for my self what to believe.kinglamoni wrote:On Own Now wrote:I didn’t pick Atheism… it picked me.
I take a different approach. I choose for my self what to believe.
Haha. If only. If I could choose what to believe I’d be LDS all the way.Congratulations on being an Agnostic. If Agnosticism works for you, great. If Gnosticism works for you, that’s great, too. I’m not going to tell anyone which path they should take. Ultimately what we ‘believe’ is distinct from what path we choose.
kinglamoni wrote:On Own Now wrote:I didn’t pick Atheism… it picked me.
I take a different approach. I choose for my self what to believe.It greatly depends what fits into someone’s brain wiring and their previous experience.
People can and tend to believe almost anything on the whole of the earth as long as their personal experience doesn’t contradict it. Regardless of weather it can be proven or not. Once personal experience kicks in, friending on how central the belief is to them, the entire assumptive world view may collapse. Picking values and beliefs that are consistent with the new personal experiences becomes crucial to maintaining sanity and comfort. Some go further and research what else’s might collapse before rebuilding their structure feeling uneasy about building the house soon the sand again. Trying to research and make sure it’s build on solid ground with existing knowledge. Others rebuild and don’t bother checking there structure to make sure, their comfortable throwing caution to the wind and getting on with life quickly.
So while some people believe in god and put all/some of the apples back into the patched broken basket, others don’t feel comfortable putting to many or nine at all back into the patched broken basket. It would be like asking them to drive there cracking distance on a blown patched tire. The security is gone for them. It blow, it blow after it was patched, reaffirming to them it will be ok on the second patch to make it to their destination doesn’t help or reinstall confidence, security or comfort.
I agree with kinglamoni – I choose what to believe. But, that choice is certainly influenced by my experiences as FC points out. I have appreciated those in my life who have realized that simply bearing their testimonies of their experiences isn’t a magic cure all. There have been those who are just the opposite as well. I used to say this all the time in that regard – your experiences are yours and yours alone, and mine are mine and mine alone. Because God answered your prayer or gave you a certain blessing does not mean he has done or will do the same for anyone else. You can have all the faith, testimony, belief, hope, etc., that you want to have and I will respect that – but your experiences do not necessarily apply to me – they’re yours. DarkJedi wrote:I agree with kinglamoni – I choose what to believe. But, that choice is certainly influenced by my experiences as FC points out. I have appreciated those in my life who have realized that simply bearing their testimonies of their experiences isn’t a magic cure all. There have been those who are just the opposite as well. I used to say this all the time in that regard – your experiences are yours and yours alone, and mine are mine and mine alone. Because God answered your prayer or gave you a certain blessing does not mean he has done or will do the same for anyone else. You can have all the faith, testimony, belief, hope, etc., that you want to have and I will respect that – but your experiences do not necessarily apply to me – they’re yours.
= subjective.
On Own Now wrote:DarkJedi wrote:I agree with kinglamoni – I choose what to believe. But, that choice is certainly influenced by my experiences as FC points out. I have appreciated those in my life who have realized that simply bearing their testimonies of their experiences isn’t a magic cure all. There have been those who are just the opposite as well. I used to say this all the time in that regard – your experiences are yours and yours alone, and mine are mine and mine alone. Because God answered your prayer or gave you a certain blessing does not mean he has done or will do the same for anyone else. You can have all the faith, testimony, belief, hope, etc., that you want to have and I will respect that – but your experiences do not necessarily apply to me – they’re yours.
= subjective.
Yes, no question about that.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:People can and tend to believe almost anything on the whole of the earth as long as their personal experience doesn’t contradict it. Regardless of weather it can be proven or not. Once personal experience kicks in, friending on how central the belief is to them, the entire assumptive world view may collapse. Picking values and beliefs that are consistent with the new personal experiences becomes crucial to maintaining sanity and comfort. Some go further and research what else’s might collapse before rebuilding their structure feeling uneasy about building the house soon the sand again. Trying to research and make sure it’s build on solid ground with existing knowledge. Others rebuild and don’t bother checking there structure to make sure, their comfortable throwing caution to the wind and getting on with life quickly.
I agree with the above. I might describe myself in the limited agency camp. I believe that there are many things in our life that we might have limited control over that will limit our options (experiences, temperament, genetics, brain chemistry, social structures, culture…. the list goes on and on). These will limit our options and make some fit better than others. The more we choose options that don’t quite fit right, the more cognitive dissonance we will experience.
I believe that a measure of peace is obtained by choosing options that “fit” for you personally.
Back to the OP, I am truly impressed by the amount of compassion and outreach shown so far by this AA.
:thumbup: - Accept that life has ambiguity. We don’t often have full information and the information we have comes from imperfect sources.
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