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I have probably said this a thousand times over now, but members are only human (and I am including GAs on this topic and that includes the Prophet!). I have been reading through some old posts – so old in fact I didnt want to comment on them (they are from 2009!!!b
😆 ). A particular topic that caught my attention was that of Temple Marriage vs Civil Marriage ie having a civil marriage when Temple marriage is an option. It was discussing how in America (obviously europe has the law that a marriage has to be performed in an open place where EVERYONE can attend) if you have a civil marriage first you have to wait a year before being sealed in the temple. Should someone choose to have the civil ceremony first, it was said that it is generally frowned upon and people feared being seen as being “unworthy” – now the first thing that I thought about when reading this was nothing to do with principles, religion etc etc but generalHUMAN GOSSIP!. Its no different to me looking shocked at the bride who practically RAN down the aisle, or the bride that wore the black dress to her wedding. Because of what I PERSONALLY believe, that just seems wrong to ME – however, its her wedding and its her choice. I know its hard, but people pay far too much attention to what other people who dont mean anything think. I love the saying those that matter dont care and those that care dont matter. I know I probably shouldnt comment as I am lucky enough to live in a country where the rules are different but I dont see anything wrong with how it is set up in America. Should a bride wish to have a civil ceremony she should have one – let people talk! Some will some wont, that happens in any culture regardless of religion. Then wait a year and get married in the Temple. I know its hard, but I think people need to learn to put there foot down..its not against the religion otherwise the possibility wouldnt be there!
When I left the Church the first couple of times I used to get annoyed about how people viewed you – especially BIC vs Converts (in my ward anyway). Some things people said used to irritate me and eventually I would generalise it to the whole religion and this would cause me to leave. When I left I realised that the same thing happens OUTSIDE OF RELIGION. People are people with different views and no matter where you go, what you do or who you are with there will always be someone who isnt happy! I have learnt probably the hard way that it is impossible to please everyone!
I dont want to sound like I am having a go at the people who had temple marriages and later felt upset by them, Im not. I know the pressure must have been great! What I am trying to say is that its the people not the religion at fault (in my view). As was said on the original post mentioning this, renewing vows is also an option. For those that are yet to be married..if you want a civil ceremony HAVE ONE!! wait the year and be HAPPY – its YOUR wedding, do it YOUR way. Some people will talk, some people wont, that unfortunately is the human race and we will probably never change.
I found myself questioning one girls decision to have the reception before her ceremony – to me that is bizarre – but its her life and if she is happy that is all that matters! I dont think the Temple should be open – it goes against what we believe, it should be sacred (I havent even gone through yet or entered one!), but there is always a way to make most people happy! Sometimes its just hard to find it!
I have many a time before the past few weeks – heard something said in the church or by a church member, which has made me think, dont agree with that must run a mile away from the Church..but then I realised people often say things outside of church that I dont agree with, but it doesnt mean that they arent fundamentally a good person like it doesnt mean that one person saying something I dont agree with makes the Church a bad place to be!
I hope this thread makes sense, I am rambling slightly! I guess I have finally switched into an alternative mode of thinking and it makes life soooo much easier. Wanted to share maybe it will help, some of you probably already think this way and I am far behind
😆 Agreed! And you sound spunky today! 
Orson wrote:Agreed! And you sound spunky today!
😆 …may have something to do with that fact that I am on a spiritual high still at the moment (had a few AMAZING experiences over the last few weeks!)..or it could just be the tub of belgium chocolate hagen daz ice cream I just ate!🙄 Quote:I have many a time before the past few weeks – heard something said in the church or by a church member, which has made me think, dont agree with that must run a mile away from the Church…but then I realised people often say things outside of church that I dont agree with, but it doesnt mean that they arent fundamentally a good person like it doesnt mean that one person saying something I dont agree with makes the Church a bad place to be!
I hope this thread makes sense, I am rambling slightly! I guess I have finally switched into an alternative mode of thinking and it makes life soooo much easier. Wanted to share maybe it will help, some of you probably already think this way and I am far behind
😆 I agree with this, but my rejoinder — their words and actions still hurt sometimes. I’ve felt that intensely. So, my strategy for the next while is to protect myself against these hurtful people. I’m not going to get invovled in leadership where i have to be thick-skinned. I’m not going to push for self-starting initiatives that will be rejected or mutated to the point that I no longer agree with them, and I’m going to side-step confrontation for a while. These things attract opposition that I don’t have the emotional capacity for right now.
This hasn’t been my approach in the past, — I’ve been proactive and deeply involved and invested, and it’s only led to hurt and angst, along with the occasional high. Right now, I’m in a much better place as a result! There are still questionable comments from people, thoughtless comments, but I too can rely on the “they are only human” rationale and deal with it….
I’m human too. This is very true and I feel kind of sad about it. I come from a family where everyone likes to gossip and judge. Not only do they gossip but they will gossip at your wedding and after. At one wedding of my cousins when they did not get married in the temple everyone talked at the wedding about why he wasn’t able to get married in the temple and how they thought he was maybe doing drugs. Every person I know that has not gotten married in the temple if it is someone in the ward, a friend or family member my family would always talk about what they thought that person did that was wrong and talk about how horrible it was they could not get married in the temple and they would not get to see their family in heaven. Even at my wedding in the temple I was told after from different people in my family about how they didn’t like this or that or my husband. It’s really hurtful. This is something that has always bothered me. I don’t know how much it happens in the church though and wonder what one can do about this other than not care. Maybe there is something you could say when someone is judging or talking. mormonmom wrote:This is very true and I feel kind of sad about it. I come from a family where everyone likes to gossip and judge. Not only do they gossip but they will gossip at your wedding and after. At one wedding of my cousins when they did not get married in the temple everyone talked at the wedding about why he wasn’t able to get married in the temple and how they thought he was maybe doing drugs. Every person I know that has not gotten married in the temple if it is someone in the ward, a friend or family member my family would always talk about what they thought that person did that was wrong and talk about how horrible it was they could not get married in the temple and they would not get to see their family in heaven. Even at my wedding in the temple I was told after from different people in my family about how they didn’t like this or that or my husband. It’s really hurtful. This is something that has always bothered me. I don’t know how much it happens in the church though and wonder what one can do about this other than not care. Maybe there is something you could say when someone is judging or talking.
Maybe its just because Im a fiery character, but if people did that at my wedding I would have something to say about it – in fact they would be kicked out of the wedding! I really dont understand some people, never will but the thing I have learnt is that it happens both in AND out of the Church so I have learnt not to blame the religion itself. I tried the last time to run away from it (fell away from the Church) but I still encountered it outside of the Church.
Its sort of like the whole Knife in the hands of a surgeon or a murderer analogy which has been used countless times to defend muslims (due to terrorism). The knife is like the religion, in the hands of a surgeon (good person) it can be used for good, to save peoples lives and help others, in the hands of the murderer (bad person ie GOSSIP in this case) will be used for bad, take lives away and bring terror to the world.
I’m only hominid. 😆 Related to this, however,is the statement “the church is perfect but the people aren’t”. I have a big problem with that statement when the imperfect people are Church leaders who make decisions that hurt the members. In their defense, I think often they are simply following policy that is egocentric to the Church or Utah, or doing what they think is best from the perspective of limited experience or empathy, but often, priesthood leaders do make glaring mistakes that hurt the members. Even when the formal Church organization knows “it”made a mistake, there have been situations where there is no admission of such, no apology, just statements that put the responsibility back on the individual. The only real attempt at improving the situation is “The Church is perfect but the people aren’t”.
That infuriated me years ago, to the point I put a lot of thought into it. To me, that statement is a “license to kill” if I may use hyperbole. It means that as an organization, the leaders of the Church can do all kinds of hurtful, but legal things, without impunity or a sense of responsibility to make it right.
I’ve come to rest with the statement “The Gospel is perfect but the Church isn’t” as a much better response when there is clear injustice in the behavior of Church leaders. However, this offends many a True Blue Mormon who can’t acknowledge that the Church, which is heavily represented by the actions of its leaders, can make flawed decisions. Which in itself is disturbing.
I therefore reflect on my black unicorn avatar again…
mormonmom wrote:This is very true and I feel kind of sad about it. I come from a family where everyone likes to gossip and judge. Not only do they gossip but they will gossip at your wedding and after.
Sounds like the people you describe have latched onto the Gossipel very well! (note the spelling of Gossipel — it’s intentional).
There are similar deficiencies in my own family, and my in-laws. Not gossip, but things I would rather do without.
My answer — breed it out of my current family (I’m being a little facetious with the word “breed”). Teach against it in my own family, nip it in the bud when it happens in my own home, etcetera. I’ve said before that my family is the last bastion of freedom in this world and its my choice which values I transmit to the next generation.
In my family, we speak out against swearing, dirty looks, and snappy comments, which is a big part of my wife’s upbringing and family. There is far less of it in my immediate family (me, my wife and kids) than in my wife’s extended family as a result. And we talk about it a lot. Being proactive in stamping out those thing that bother us in our born-into families can really decrease the angst about them….
The Church isn’t perfect – “complete, whole, fully developed”. At the most fundamental level, our Articles of Faith say that (“ yet revealMANYgreat and important things . . . “), and the organizational development continues to evolve. To me that’s so basic and obvious that I just have to laugh inside when I hear it.
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