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I sometimes wonder about more liberal religions that don’t require codes of belief or orthodoxy of ideas or even practices. My best friend’s mom left the church when my friend was young, and they basically joined the Unitarian congregation. Looking at the stats, though, there are fewer UU than CoC in the US. The church often scoffs at these more liberal congregations’ ability to engage and retain members. While I agree with JS that “it feels good not to be trammeled,” apparently without any trammeling, people don’t engage fully. Maybe it’s like how you have to undermine the cheerleader’s self esteem to date her. Churches require some amount of Stockholm Syndrome to work. We hate members being social bullies, but they also make it harder to leave because of their taunts about quitters.I look at it like fabric. A pile of yard or wool isn’t very effective until it has been shaped or woven into cloth. Sometimes it’s a blanket, sometimes it’s clothes. I have attended UU churches. They are more like a pile of threads or yarn. I appreciate the “be whoever, whatever you are” presentation, but I yearn for some meat. Even disagreement. I have attended multiple Catholic services, and though I find their rituals reminiscent to our Temple/Covenant rituals, I have trouble connecting with liturgy at times other than holidays. I am jaded with delight by Lutheran’s right now, they seem to be able to be liberal and yet biblically anchored. Most of all though I love our cloth. It has some definite holes and thin spots. It doesn’t cover everyone, but it’s strong in other areas. I guess I will be trammeled just a bit more.
From my understanding, threat of forced social isolation is a useful evolutionary tool. Useful, not necessarily healthy or good. We are all social creatures that need relationships to survive so the fear of that being purposefully revoked is terrifying because its life ending, in a way. Nowadays it’s probably overused and unnecessary as there are many more people, communities, modes of travel, economic opportunities available to make establishing a new social network possible. And it is useful in high-stakes situations such as military, crisis, or first responders. There is little room for individual variation in those types of survival situations. But for the vast majority of the developed world, our day-to-day isn’t survival, and our use of social rejection is probably a holdover of our historical biology. To use mom3’s analogy, someone’s gotta pull the yarn into a blanket.
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LookingHard wrote:
I would say the bigger issue for me is the reaction of members, especially top leaders, to my doubts. I still do attend, but mainly for my wife’s sake.Although I wouldn’t say that I have doubts as I feel I have conclusions (which can be wrong and can change).
This is pretty close to describing me. I thought I was at peace once my doubts became conclusions but recently it has become harder than ever to feel calm and at peace, in fact I no longer feel as if belong in the “group” and I don’t have the emotional strength to deal with it. I have a deep wound and it’s from an institution that does not have the source of my feelings on their radar. I think that would require a lot of self reflection on their part and that is just not an option. Therefore we will remain at unspoken odds without any possible reconciliation for the future that I can see. It really is not enjoyable to be here any more. It’s like being in a group that you are not really part of.
EDIT:
Did I hijack? Moderators do whatever you need, sorry. I have crafted several posts only to safe as drafts because I question if they are appropriate. This was just an emotional reaction after reading through this thread, although not isolated to this thread.
Kipper wrote:
LookingHard wrote:
I would say the bigger issue for me is the reaction of members, especially top leaders, to my doubts. I still do attend, but mainly for my wife’s sake.Although I wouldn’t say that I have doubts as I feel I have conclusions (which can be wrong and can change).
This is pretty close to describing me. I thought I was at peace once my doubts became conclusions but recently it has become harder than ever to feel calm and at peace, in fact I no longer feel as if belong in the “group” and I don’t have the emotional strength to deal with it. I have a deep wound and it’s from an institution that does not have the source of my feelings on their radar. I think that would require a lot of self reflection on their part and that is just not an option. Therefore we will remain at unspoken odds without any possible reconciliation for the future that I can see. It really is not enjoyable to be here any more. It’s like being in a group that you are not really part of.
I have found I like to describe it as it coming in waves, not some linear progression (certainly not as distinct as “stages” would suggest). It comes and goes and every once in a while I am slammed with wave. Sometimes I see them and brace, and other times they catch me off guard. But I have learned to let it go and just move on. I hope you feel over time it is getting better.
Kipper wrote:EDIT:
Did I hijack? Moderators do whatever you need, sorry. I have crafted several posts only to safe as drafts because I question if they are appropriate. This was just an emotional reaction after reading through this thread, although not isolated to this thread.
I do not see anything that is innapropriate in your comment.
I am at a phase of life right now where I enjoy the care and effort that is given to my kids. My local leaders really do care about them and want them to be successful. We might have slightly different versions of what success looks like but hey – where else are you going to find a group of adults and peers invested in helping your children reach their dreams?
IOW, I am currently soaking up the goodness that I find in the church and not worrying so much about truth claims.
Roy wrote:
IOW, I am currently soaking up the goodness that I find in the church and not worrying so much about truth claims.
That is may plan, although it’s secondary to doing what is necessary to keeping my family intact.
After decades of struggle, I have finally thrown in the towel on reconciling church history. To me it can’t be done. But that doesn’t make everything about the church bad or false. In fact, I read a quote recently that really resonated with me. It directed me to stop looking for answers and instead search for meaning. I find a great deal of meaning in my participation and associations in the church. I’m hoping that this pivot will allow me to continue with a certain level of engagement with the church. I hope to continue to attend regularly with my family and maintain the relationships that are important to me. I hope to continue to serve in the church in some capacity. I’m planning to try this on for a while and see how it fits. Rumin, please share the quote with us! Sorry for the delay responding, Roy. I had to find where I had read that quote. It took me a minute. The quote is: “Mature spirituality insists that we hold out for meaning instead of settling for mere answers.”
There is much more to it. You can see it in it’s full context here:
https://cac.org/your-imaginarium-2015-09-28/https://cac.org/your-imaginarium-2015-09-28/” class=”bbcode_url”>
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