Mental laziness is the vice of men, especially with referenc

[Anonymous]

My mother, who knows I’m going through a faith transition sent me the following quote and blog link. I appreciate her love and acceptance. She is both liberal and TBM. She knows the historical issues and is willing to discuss them, but is convinced through personal spiritual experience that she’s in the right place.

I’ve put this in the quotes thread but would love your take on it.

From Elder B.H. Roberts (of the first quorum of the seventy):

Quote:

“Mental laziness is the vice of men, especially with reference to divine things. Men seem to think that because inspiration and revelation are factors in connection with the things of God, therefore the pain and stress of mental effort are not required; that by some means these elements act somewhat as Elijah’s ravens and feed us without effort on our part. To escape this effort, this mental stress to know the things that are, men raise all too readily the ancient bar-“Thus far shalt thou come, but no farther.” Man cannot hope to understand the things of God, they plead, or penetrate those things which he has left shrouded in mystery. “Be thou content with the simple faith that accepts without question. To believe, and accept the ordinances, and then live the moral law will doubtless bring men unto salvation; why then should man strive and trouble himself to understand? Much study is still a weariness of the flesh.” So men reason; and just now it is much in fashion to laud “the simple faith;” which is content to believe without understanding, or even without much effort to understand. And doubtless many good people regard this course as indicative of reverence-this plea in bar of effort- “thus far and no farther.”…This sort of “reverence” is easily simulated, and is of such flattering unction, and so pleasant to follow- “soul take thine ease”- that without question it is very often simulated; and falls into the same category as the simulated humility couched in “I don’t know,” which so often really means “I don’t care, and do not intend to trouble myself to find out.” Elder B.H. Roberts, The Seventy’s Course of Theology, vol. V (Salt Lake City: The Deseret News, 1912), pg. v –

See more at: http://www.withoutend.org/questioning-mormonism/#sthash.BdrV8xR1.ZgWYoDsm.dpuf

The blog is excellent, well worth reading.

Here are some choice quotes:

Quote:

If the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants teach us anything, it is the power of a good question. Many of these revelations came as a result of theological questions or concerns Joseph Smith developed while working his way through the Bible. Rather than a sign of sin, a questioning mind should be recognized for what it truly is, a desire to obtain truth, and the pursuit of truth (to the extent that we as human beings can obtain it) is a profound spiritual quest for “whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit” (D&C 84: 45).

…

There are problematic historical, cultural, political, and even theological views that over the years have been expressed by well-meaning Church leaders. Questioning these matters with a critical mind, however, is not a sin, nor should the doubter who struggles with inconsistencies within Mormonism be perceived as a sinner.

…

So what is the believer to do with doubts? Continue to ponder and think critically, for one, while at the same time, recognizing the spiritual validity of one famous Book of Mormon metaphor regarding the notion of faith. Despite its inconsistencies, if practicing Mormonism and believing in its theological constructs (even with its contradictions) leads the doubter to feel happy, then he or she must needs say that Mormonism is a good seed; that living life as a Latter-day Saint is a good thing. Yet no matter where the believer ends up landing in his or her spiritual journey, questioning is an essential component in the life of a mature thinker and should not be treated, nor interpreted as sin.

Oh to hear this taught from the pulpit.

[Anonymous]

Excellent quotes.

Quote:

Oh to hear this taught from the pulpit.

I want to hear it more often, especially at the local level, but Pres. Uchtdorf is teaching it from the General Conference pulpit and as places like BYU devotionals.

[Anonymous]

edit

[Anonymous]

mackay11 wrote:

My mother, who knows I’m going through a faith transition sent me the following quote and blog link. I appreciate her love and acceptance. She is both liberal and TBM. She knows the historical issues and is willing to discuss them, but is convinced through personal spiritual experience that she’s in the right place.

I’ve put this in the quotes thread but would love your take on it.

I really enjoyed the quote particularly as I was once in conversation with a member of the SP and he continually retreated to the “simple faith” fallback position. But I recognize that this is somewhat mean-spirited of me. I know that others with different temperaments and life experiences have good reason to just move forward with what is working in their lives. If I was gifted a car that ran indefinitely without breaking down – would I be lazy to not invest in vehicle repair knowledge? Why would I even look under the hood? Is there any truth to the expressions of “looking a gift horse in the mouth” or “curiosity killed the cat”?

So I cannot in good conscience ascribe laziness to everyone that doesn’t feel the need to question what is working for them.

mackay11 wrote:

So what is the believer to do with doubts? Continue to ponder and think critically, for one, while at the same time, recognizing the spiritual validity of one famous Book of Mormon metaphor regarding the notion of faith. Despite its inconsistencies, if practicing Mormonism and believing in its theological constructs (even with its contradictions) leads the doubter to feel happy, then he or she must needs say that Mormonism is a good seed; that living life as a Latter-day Saint is a good thing. Yet no matter where the believer ends up landing in his or her spiritual journey, questioning is an essential component in the life of a mature thinker and should not be treated, nor interpreted as sin.

Oh to hear this taught from the pulpit.

I feel like we received something very similar this last conference:

Quote:

Furthermore, you have more faith than you think you do because of what the Book of Mormon calls “the greatness of the evidences.” “Ye shall know them by their fruits,” Jesus said, and the fruit of living the gospel is evident in the lives of Latter-day Saints everywhere. As Peter and John said once to an ancient audience, I say today, “We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard,” and what we have seen and heard is that “a notable miracle hath been done” in the lives of millions of members of this Church. That cannot be denied.

I find it amazing that this Apostle is not saying that we should not abandon the church because our eternal welfare depends upon it (at least not at this instance). He is not saying that he has had a supernatural experience that gives him some otherworldly perspective in knowing truth. When he speaks of his personal experience, “the things which [he personally has] seen and heard,” he speaks of the net good that can be seen in the lives of church members the world over and reminds us that “in this world, everyone is to walk by faith.” (himself included)

[Anonymous]

Such great quotes! Thank you so much for sharing. Sometimes I sit through lessons or talks at church and have felt a bit of guilt that I couldn’t just accept everything on faith alone and leave it at that. My soul seeks truth in all its forms and a more clear understanding of things.

In my lesson on the WoW today, I talked about how the dietary guidelines were being heatedly debated throughout the U.S. and about how it was difficult for the early saints to completely adhere to the WoW because alcohol and tobacco were so widely used and are such addictive substances. I even mentioned how Joseph Smith and some other early prophets continued to consume alcohol or smoke tobacco on occasion. One member came up to me afterward and said they enjoyed the lesson and that they could see how someone who was new to the church or who hadn’t heard those things before could have their faith shaken by knowing them, but that since those in our class are generally quite seasoned in the church it was a very refreshing lesson. For me, knowing the issues in the environment that helped prompt the question and seeing and understanding the difficulties that early saints had with it helps me understand and appreciate it more. The more simplistic, “faith promoting” lessons tend to frustrate me.

[Anonymous]

Ray’s right that the modern voice for ‘discovering your own truth’ is Elder Uchtdorf.

Glad your lesson went well MayB. It’s always refreshing to get positive feedback after stretching the envelope. Using trusted sources can also be a good ground to build from.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I really enjoyed the quote particularly as I was once in conversation with a member of the SP and he continually retreated to the “simple faith” fallback position. But I recognize that this is somewhat mean-spirited of me. I know that others with different temperaments and life experiences have good reason to just move forward with what is working in their lives. If I was gifted a car that ran indefinitely without breaking down – would I be lazy to not invest in vehicle repair knowledge? Why would I even look under the hood? Is there any truth to the expressions of “looking a gift horse in the mouth” or “curiosity killed the cat”?

Since cars are a complete mystery to me, this made me think. People talk about how the “average” person used to be able to diagnose and fix many of the “average” car problems. I hear people say that you can’t do that anymore, nearly everything has to go to a mechanic and even sometimes to a dealership. Seems like a good skill and the opportunity to use it has been lost. I think that’s sometimes how I feel in the church now. Like tinkering on my own car is unapproved.

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

Like tinkering on my own car is unapproved.

You might void the warranty. 😆

[Author]

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