Missed Opportunity

[Anonymous]

My oldest is a devoted member. She also knows a lot about her parents frustrations and faith change. We’ve discussed the essays and other things – because the essays didn’t cover everything if you hadn’t heard.

Tonight she texts me all excited. Two BYU religion professors are coming to her area tonight to talk about “The First Vision Accounts”. She is pumped. “Oh, this will be great” were her exact words.

An hour later,

Quote:

Well, never mind. It was good. But she really glossed over the accounts. She did say there are many, but didn’t even give a current number.

My reply

Quote:

All is well in Zion.

Then I ranted about the missed opportunity. I’m sure she enjoyed it.

[Anonymous]

In priesthood meeting a few months back the visiting High councilmen taught on the essays. the first taught on the FV accounts. He basically said that there were different accounts for different audiences and things that were chosen for emphasis and that anti-Mormons seize upon this to call JS a liar.

Yes, there are anti-Mormons out there that may wish to spin the evidence. However, I feel that the evidence strongly supports a visionary experience – NOT a visitation. JS was actually fairly consistent on that point. It does put the modern church in a bit of a bind because we have been teaching it as a visitation for as long as I can remember.

Is it ok to revise our understanding? To say, “We read things into the JS accounts that were not really there” ??? Perhaps it is time to lighten the load of the truth cart a bit.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree that the experience was visionary as opposed to physical Roy. And I agree that Joseph made that abundantly clear. It’s even called the first vision for crying out loud.

As one who has made many visits to the site of said vision, I believe most members see it as more physical than visionary. I have heard many a testimony about this physicality, including from the GC pulpit. Just so no one reads anything into the “said vision” phrase I used, I do believe Joseph Smith – I believe he did indeed have a powerful spiritual experience, although I am not positive what he did or didn’t see or hear (based on the differing accounts). But let me reemphasize – I believe him. I believe it was a vision, I do not believe God or angels were physically present, but that doesn’t make it any less “real.”

Sometimes I challenge people who make it sound more physical, usually with a simple question like “Then why is it called a vision?” That’s not possible and sometimes not practical in F&TM and other situations, though. And, in many instances I can just give people the benefit of the doubt because it’s not expressly clear that they are saying it was a physical experience or that they just aren’t parroting (we had a beautiful parrot in our F&TM today who talked about all we “know” about the pre-earth life). Sometimes it is clear though, and I seem to recall one such instance in the most recent GC. In that case I think they’re just digging themselves into a deeper hole. I agree, it is time to lighten the load of the truth cart, especially with those things that probably aren’t true.

[Anonymous]

I made a discovery relating to the FV accounts today, thanks to one of my sons, but rather than derail this thread I’ll start a new one.

[Author]

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