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Fwiw, “too modest” really is being “immodest” – being out-of-balance. That’s a great example of what I mean when I say that we collectively don’t understand what modesty really means.
True enough, Ray. I’ve heard that modesty also is about how you are in the inside. I think I’ve heard if you’re truly are modest on the inside and outside you have charity, the pure love of Christ. DAX, the only way I can see that we can make this go backwards, even a little, is speaking out regarding the extreme situations. For example, women involved in girls camp or mothers of those girls where the Tshirt cover up thing is going on can start to speak out, gently, but seriously as to why this had started up? And challenge everyone to let the girls be girls and enjoy their camp with their swimsuits. I think tankini’s are actually okay now from something one of my friends read somewhere. Maybe that’s where the Tshirt thing came from anyhow…have to watch out for those tankini’s because they might come up in the water. What other things might we come up with? Hmmmm….
Thanks as usual Ray for all your good points. And to everyone else. This has been a great discussion!
Mike….I never ever thought about one of the guys being told to cover up in a situation like that!
Ilovechrist77 wrote:I’ve heard that modesty also is about how you are in the inside. I think I’ve heard if you’re truly are modest on the inside and outside you have charity, the pure love of Christ.
Yes! This part seems to not receive emphasis on this topic!
Old-Timer wrote:
Modesty is a concept that embraces both of the principles above –an attempt to create a reasonable “middle way” that doesn’t emphasize the communal OR the individual above the other. It’s not about being “true” or “right”; it’s about being “reasonable” and “charitable”. Bingo — and as the resident communal/organizational topic enthusiast, I think there is room, now and then to focus on individual interests in an attempt to move the center toward balance. Right now, I believe it’s swung too far into the communal realm. And, there are times when individuals do themselves by focusing their efforts on communal interests at the expense of their own individual interests. In times like those, there is room for a focus on their individual needs, perhaps even letting communal interests suffer until they are in a position to rededicate to the community.
Old-Timer wrote:That’s a great example of what I mean when I say that we collectively don’t understand what modesty really means.
As a Mormon and a nudist all I can say is “you got that right.”
I’ve been out of this for awhile, but glad to be back! What a great discussion! This is a topic that I have always felt strongly about and actually spoken out about. I don’t believe modesty is all about your neckline or your shoulders showing. I think modesty comes a lot from what is on the inside; how you carry yourself. Orson, I love what you said about the temptation being greater for those who rarely encounter it.
Silent Dawning, I understand where you’re going with your brownie analogy, and I know this is not how you meant it, but consider this twist on it. What if the brownies were just trying to be proud of who they are? Not by being in your face, but just existing. To put them away would make them feel like they were doing something wrong. I feel that the church needs to figure out a way to make it’s girls/women feel like they are not being “put away.” ( Side note, when I am actually dieting, the church does not do a very good job of putting their literal brownies away…and it tempts me to break the wow and eat like crap. But I’ll leave that for another thread
I may have shared this story on here before…but when I was 16 I went to EFY. My mom bought me special clothes to make sure I would be modest-but I got in trouble for my clothes every single day. It’s because of my body type, and there is nothing I can do about that. (Trust me, I’ve tried.) Through all my teen years I tried so hard to dress modestly, but because of my body type I was always given grief about everything I wore. At some point I sort of gave up and started dressing in clothes that made me feel good about my body instead of trying to meet an ‘impossible’ standard. That worked for me with that particular issue, but it would not have worked for all girls/women.
I don’t believe that women should have to feel responsible for the thoughts of others. I think that women should dress appropriately for the situation they are in, be it at the beach, out to dinner or at church. I think that the desire to be modest should come from what you feel good and comfortable in and that modesty in action is so much more important than adhering to a letter of the law standard of modesty set forth so you don’t have to make decisions for yourself.
HSAB, welcome back! Thanks! 
In my master’s program, I was heavily inculcated into critical theory–critical feminist theory, critical race theory, critical queer theory, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory I have since come to challenge many of the aspects of critical theory, but it is still a bit instinctual for me to analyze situations through a critical theoretical lens.That having been said, the current situation in the Church with regards to girls/women and clothing/modesty seems to be less about the spiritual foundations of modesty, and more about control of women. Let’s gets rid of this patriarchal practice! Men, let us stand up and hand this issue back to women, in whose court this ball rightfully belongs.
Interesting thread. Modesty isn’t about covering up…
[img]http://www.roadkilldelight.com/NOM/Ankle.jpg [/img] Sad, but there is some potential truth here…
ATVjunkie, I thought that image was one of the most profound I’d ever seen when I first saw it. That feeling didn’t change when I saw it again. Lol. I have a shirt I got recently that was my most favorite shirt. It is not a tank top but it has no sleeves. The fabric is at least 3 inches thick across the top of my shoulder. In the real world it would be considered very modest. I wore it not thinking anything of it. The other day my husband took it from me and told me I can’t wear it any more because “It’s too porno.” His words. I thought he was smoking crack. I just read through this post and realized…. he was freaking serious! WTH! I don’t think women should walk around with their cleavage all out or shorts that show cheek when they bend over. But shoulders? Come on. Since when are shoulders a private part? It’s 100 degrees outside. I do think the LDS version of modesty can go a bit too far.
RagDollSally, your husband thought a shirt like that was too porno. Wow! That image is great! It demonstrates what orson was talking about so well. We decide what our society thinks is racy and what isn’t. And ragdoll Sally, that sounds a little intense. Maybe you should show him this image 
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