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Old-Timer wrote:Quote:
Whether that means I adjust my donations upwards again, or affirm my comfort with my current position is up to me I guess.
Exactly.
I also would suggest strongly paying it straight to SLC – and, if you are asked about it, telling your Bishop explicitly that you were hurt, deeply, by how everything happened. I would tell him that you respect his position and responsibilities, but that paying your tithing directly to SLC seems like the best way to eliminate the gossipers – and that is what I would call them.
This is very good advice — exactly what is needed in this case. I don’t know, however, how it would work — since iirc, you’re in [edited to remove exact location], correct?
Thanks Kristmace for the explanation! Not that you owed me one, but I was just curious. Speaking of the tattlers, did you find out who the three were? I would be going crazy sitting in my ward looking around trying to figure out who the three were.
This is bullcrap. From one leading with faith and speaking out loud, I am tired of those who toe the line never asking questions, never looking beyond the Sunday School curriculum having influence over those who are more informed, simply because they are more informed. Ergggghhhhh. I feel for ya. If the people who went to your Bishop are still following your threads, here is hoping they will read this:
Whoever you are, please call me or email me. I am not in your ward and I am faithful, but you don’t have a clue what is going on here. I have spoken to an apostle and a member of the seventy. They acknowledge the struggle that kristmace has and many many more like him. They would have us know that the worst thing we can do is draw unnecessary lines in the sand and be inflexible to doubts and questions. Read Elder Holland’s talk this past conference. There is a middle ground of being able to wade through this stuff, dealing with doubts, without being looked down upon.
email me –
reelmormon@gmail.com I would be happy to inform you of this issue of doubts and how what you did was unhelpful on multiple levels.
Unfortunate.
AngryMormon wrote:kristmace wrote:That’s exactly the case Roy. I’m an open person, I don’t use a pseudonym online, and my crime is being open about my beliefs and practices with others in support forums such as this. If I had kept my ID hidden or kept my opinion to myself then there wouldn’t be a problem. I don’t feel I can do that though, as I’m not ashamed of my positions and I’m perfectly willing to enter dialogue with anyone on any topic. Such openness has been a one way street though and virtually no one is willing to discuss, just to take punitive action.
I’m a bit confused, I hope you don’t mind me asking for clarification Kirstmace. If you are not ashamed of your positions and are willing to enter dialogue with anyone, how come you were not upfront with your Bishop in the first place regarding tithing? Just curious.
However, I do want to add that I support you fully in your situation right now Kristmace. You seem like a nice guy and I don’t like tattletales. Hope your hanging in there! I also think it is messed up that you were not made aware of the three individuals who were “concerned” for you.
The brethren have defined tithing in a way to allow each member to consult the Holy Ghost to determine what is a full tithe and that no leader is to expound on the Church’s definition. It is not the Bishop’s place to establish what a full tithe is but rather to hold people to being honest with themselves.
DBMormon wrote:The brethren have defined tithing in a way to allow each member to consult the Holy Ghost to determine what is a full tithe and that no leader is to expound on the Church’s definition. It is not the Bishop’s place to establish what a full tithe is but rather to hold people to being honest with themselves.
DB, I think the issue here is a stake president and bishop who have taken specific statements said by kristmace as evidence of noncompliance, and then yanked his TR and his calling. They may have acted outside of policy, but without a court, and without even the courtesy of showing the evidence, they acted unilaterally.I am sure that if kristmace were in your ward, you would not have done this. What advice would you give kristmace to fix the situation?
Move to my ward. I an not a Bishop anymore by the way. But my ward still rocks In all seriousness, I would write a few friends of mine who are higher up and simply ask if anything can be done. A few contacts have helped in many a cases
kristmace, it can’t hurt to contact DB via his email address in the signature line. Thanks for the replies and support, especially DBMormon. It’s nice to think that others feel the same when my situation is explained, and that I’m not just going crazy. I’ve laid everything out here, but I’ll think about emailing DB to see if there is anything else I can add, or anything he can suggest.
My heart goes out to Kirstmace….sorry this happened. I would love to correspond. I have some private thoughts that may be beneficial DBMormon wrote:I would love to correspond. I have some private thoughts that may be beneficial
Email sent.
Thanks DB.
DBMormon wrote:In all seriousness, I would write a few friends of mine who are higher up and simply ask if anything can be done. A few contacts have helped in many a cases
I agree with this, you should make this situation known as high as you can, say you went to a shop and got shoddy service, what would you do? escalate till you got a good answer right????
I do think it’s high time local leaders have a few hard lessons in what NOT to do! Escalate it, as we all know poop rolls downhill!
I just want to highlight DBMormon’s comments – Brilliant words! DBMormon wrote:
Whoever you are, please call me or email me. I am not in your ward and I am faithful, but you don’t have a clue what is going on here. I have spoken to an apostle and a member of the seventy. They acknowledge the struggle that kristmace has and many many more like him. They would have us know that the worst thing we can do is draw unnecessary lines in the sand and be inflexible to doubts and questions. Read Elder Holland’s talk this past conference. There is a middle ground of being able to wade through this stuff, dealing with doubts, without being looked down upon.
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