Monson issued court summons to answer allegations of Fraud

[Anonymous]

I just listened to IOT Tom Phillips podcast. I think the church should be scared.

I also, regardless how it turns out, think the church will be changing the tithing/marriage policies.

Yep. Our current tithing policies of requiring tithing to perform and receive ordinances and attend weddings are not good…immoral, certainly, and possible legally fraudulent…in my opinion of course.

Change will happen…either voluntarily or mandated.

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[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

I just listened to IOT Tom Phillips podcast. I think the church should be scared.

I also, regardless how it turns out, think the church will be changing the tithing/marriage policies.

Yep. Our current tithing policies of requiring tithing to perform and receive ordinances and attend weddings are not good…immoral, certainly, and possible legally fraudulent…in my opinion of course.

Change will happen…either voluntarily or mandated.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I just finished a book about the temple and development of ceremonies and it was pretty plain that the tithing requirement had to do with keeping the commandments and being faithful and wasn’t just an entry fee. Pres. McKay made it plain in a number of areas in the book. I think tithing, because it’s money, gets put in a different category than chastity, attending sacrament and priesthood, WoW, etc. but as near as I could see it was just part of the deal. I hope they change the temple marriage attendance thing because to me it makes no sense given that in other areas of the world civil marriage is required first. But to perform and receive ordinances I think the do you or don’t you things are going to have to stay.

[Anonymous]

GBSmith wrote:

cwald wrote:

I just listened to IOT Tom Phillips podcast. I think the church should be scared.

I also, regardless how it turns out, think the church will be changing the tithing/marriage policies.

Yep. Our current tithing policies of requiring tithing to perform and receive ordinances and attend weddings are not good…immoral, certainly, and possible legally fraudulent…in my opinion of course.

Change will happen…either voluntarily or mandated.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I just finished a book about the temple and development of ceremonies and it was pretty plain that the tithing requirement had to do with keeping the commandments and being faithful and wasn’t just an entry fee. Pres. McKay made it plain in a number of areas in the book. I think tithing, because it’s money, gets put in a different category than chastity, attending sacrament and priesthood, WoW, etc. but as near as I could see it was just part of the deal. I hope they change the temple marriage attendance thing because to me it makes no sense given that in other areas of the world civil marriage is required first. But to perform and receive ordinances I think the do you or don’t you things are going to have to stay.

Yes. That is exactly their policy. Which is why the church is in trouble. Can you cite any other church, accept Scientology, that REQUIRES a payment to join and participate in family ordinaces, and then does yearly reviews and interviews about the payment, and issues penalties if failure to pay?

I cannot do so. And then you include the issue of hiding facts and history, obfuscating and, in some opinions, out right lying, to convince members and converts to make that payment.

Phillips has a case….there will be changes coming. IMO.

The corporate tithing policies cannot stand scrutiny for a church, tax exempt, charitable, organization.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think there is a legitimate case, and the unbiased, non-LDS lawyers whose opinions I have read agree.

It’s all speculation at this point.

Also, all churches that solicit financial contributions tie dedication to those contributions to some degree. Many churches pass a plate in services, where everyone can see who contributes and who doesn’t. That is a different kind of pressure, but it absolutely is social and religious pressure of an obvious and extreme nature. Televangelists regularly guilt people into sending them contributions – or, again, tie great rewards to sending those contributions. It happens all the time throughout religion, in varying ways and to varying degrees.

Seriously, my friends in many other congregations know exactly who is contributing and who isn’t – to a greater extent than I do about other members of my ward. Ministers and priests know who is contributing in their congregations just as much as Bishops do in the LDS Church – and many of them lean on their congregants every bit as much as most Bishops do. Many of my friends talk with me openly about the pressure that is applied to make sure their churches are adequately funded – often through “voluntary” fundraising activities that are conducted publicly.

This isn’t close to being unique to Mormonism.

[Anonymous]

[Admin Note]: This thread is close to being finished, since there is pretty much nothing new being said at this point.

Let’s let it drop until there is movement of some kind that can bring fresh input. Otherwise, it’s just going to turn into a recycling of the same points over and over and over again – nothing more than a place to disagree, which is not what we do here. I don’t want to have it locked, since I want it to stay open in case of further development, so let’s just let it go for now and wait for further development.

[Anonymous]

Edited

Never mind. I will have this discussion in another forum.

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[Anonymous]

Hi Cwald, I certainly know that many churches demand attendance and activity prior to performing a wedding or Christening. Some charge for these services. Certainly at some of the funeral services I’ve been to – including humanist ones – the minister and venue charge a pretty penny.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Edited

Never mind. I will have this discussion in another forum.

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Too bad. I think it’s good to have the conversation here too (but will also respect the Admins if they feel otherwise). This is one of the few forums where people seem able to have the discussion and see both sides of the story. MDDB and NOM (among others) lean to heavily pro or con to have a reasonable conversation (and not be pounced on by one “side” or the other).

But like I said… I’ll let it go until 14th March.

[Author]

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