Mormon and Same Sex Attracted

[Anonymous]

I don’t know why but I read your OP and I just wanted to take you to lunch and continue listening to you.

[Anonymous]

Hi ???,

I hope you have had a chance to read and understand the posts here; I think most here have a very compassionate, loving view of the “problem” many “SSAs” have in the church. I will add my 2 cents (maybe that’s all it’s worth).

As background, I have many family members and friends that are gay/lesbian…including my sister. I have seen depression, suicide, drug addiction, and deep emotional pain because of the guilt they feel. I have dealt with it from the position of a brother, friend, drug counselor, and bishop. I will echo the sentiment that has been said: the church doesn’t know how to deal with the issue.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t trying their best to figure it out…and to do the best they can with what they know, but we continue to see at least one obituary a day in the Utah papers of one who has taken his/her life because of the hell they were living in. The church can’t change, or train their leaders fast enough to make the needed change to finally give the LGBT people true unconditional love and acceptance.

This is my view: You are a worthy, courageous, perfect human being — AS YOU ARE! It doesn’t matter what you have done, what you do, or what choice you make regarding your church involvement. Nor does it matter what path you decide to take regarding your sexuality. You have experienced great love with the healing touch you mentioned. I think that’s beautiful. You have, and will continue to express your love for yourself and others in ways sexual and not. It’s all beautiful.

The guilt is man-made…it has been taught you by people who don’t understand. They were taught by their forebearers that did not understand. It’s okay. They will learn someday.

Consider the possibility that the “good feelings” you have for the church are feelings of acceptance and support. We will always have a soft spot for the good parts of our tribal upbringing. It is possible, maybe even likely, that you will find great love and support in other spiritual institutions as well. I think that is important to consider for you. You can get help getting past your conflicts and guilt…and I sincerely hope you do. I wish you the best, and please feel free to PM me if I can help.

~Rix

[Anonymous]

I believe that all Churches in the modernized world will have to modify their stance on so-called “same sex” attraction.

With the advent of new, accurate molecular biology, biochemistry, clinical endocrinology, physicians will be able to accurately diagnose many variants of sexual development and differentiation before the child is even born.

5 alpha reductase deficiency – little boys that are born looking like baby girls because they can’t convert the male steroid hormone, testosterone into the biologically active form, dihydrotestosterone. Can now perform amniocentesis – will be able to diagnose disorder in the womb.

Androgen insensitivity Syndrome – little biological boys who are born looking like girls because they lack testosterone receptors. Can be diagnosed in the womb.

Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia -little, baby girls born looking like boys because the adrenal glands are huge, pouring out androgen (male hormones).

The list will just keep getting bigger and bigger.

|Yep, molecular biology just keeps marching right along and these ultra sensitive tests will challenge our current perception of gender. We will have to confront disorders of sexual development and differentiation.

Right now, up to 75% of children who are diagnosed with sexual identity issues such as Klinefelter’s syndrome (XXY) are aborted BEFORE they are born. Our society has a very strong bias against intersex children. Discrimination begins in the womb and is often life long.

My goal is to kneel down every day at least once and pray that all churches will start to adopt and help implement more humane and just treatment of children born with disorders of sexual development and differentiation. We have to stop judging people and start living the gospel. We have to return to our Constitution, both Federal and State, and embrace the concept that “all men are created equal” and are entitled to equal protection under the law. We have to start loving our children the way that God created them.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this primer.

[Anonymous]

That was fantastic, MWallace!

Thank you so much for contributing it. Very, very important, imho.

[Anonymous]

Rix wrote:

Hi ???,

I I will add my 2 cents (maybe that’s all it’s worth).

As background, I have many family members and friends that are gay/lesbian…including my sister. I have seen depression, suicide, drug addiction, and deep emotional pain because of the guilt they feel. I have dealt with it from the position of a brother, friend, drug counselor, and bishop. I will echo the sentiment that has been said: the church doesn’t know how to deal with the issue.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t trying their best to figure it out…and to do the best they can with what they know, but we continue to see at least one obituary a day in the Utah papers of one who has taken his/her life because of the hell they were living in. The church can’t change, or train their leaders fast enough to make the needed change to finally give the LGBT people true unconditional love and acceptance.

~Rix

Rix,,,your comments are worth at least 25 cents!! I always enjoy reading your posts. Have you read Carol Lynn Pearson’s books “Goodbye I love You” and No more goodbyes? So many lds parents of gay children worry about suicide with their kids, so this is very important. The June 1999 issue of Sunstone magizine had the best article called “Pastoring the Far Side: on making a place for believing homosexuals. I see changes, but they are slow. I know that Prophet Hinckley has a gay nephew and a number of GA’s have family members with this issue so they are being forced to look at it. Years ago, I met a young Danish man at an Evergreen conference who had served a mission from Denmark in Salt Lake City. He so much wanted to be able to change and be accepted by his parents and ward. His dad was a police office and Stake president in Copenhagen at one time. I met with this young man recently while I was in Denmark. He told me that hiding and living in the closet and trying to change had just become to much for him and he was suicidle. He finally went a psychiarist for clinical depression. He had been one of the most unhappy men when I met him. After accepting his homosexuality and becoming a marathan runner and finding a boyfriend, he is now a whole new person and so happy and vibrant instead of shy and insecure. He was so sweet and took me to see the Copenhagen temple. He said he is not hostile towards the church and loved his mission. He said the church is good for many people but it did not work for him. So, this needs to change.

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

Rix wrote:

Hi ???,

I I will add my 2 cents (maybe that’s all it’s worth).

As background, I have many family members and friends that are gay/lesbian…including my sister. I have seen depression, suicide, drug addiction, and deep emotional pain because of the guilt they feel. I have dealt with it from the position of a brother, friend, drug counselor, and bishop. I will echo the sentiment that has been said: the church doesn’t know how to deal with the issue.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t trying their best to figure it out…and to do the best they can with what they know, but we continue to see at least one obituary a day in the Utah papers of one who has taken his/her life because of the hell they were living in. The church can’t change, or train their leaders fast enough to make the needed change to finally give the LGBT people true unconditional love and acceptance.

~Rix

Rix,,,your comments are worth at least 25 cents!! I always enjoy reading your posts. Have you read Carol Lynn Pearson’s books “Goodbye I love You” and No more goodbyes? So many lds parents of gay children worry about suicide with their kids, so this is very important. The June 1999 issue of Sunstone magizine had the best article called “Pastoring the Far Side: on making a place for believing homosexuals. I see changes, but they are slow. I know that Prophet Hinckley has a gay nephew and a number of GA’s have family members with this issue so they are being forced to look at it. Years ago, I met a young Danish man at an Evergreen conference who had served a mission from Denmark in Salt Lake City. He so much wanted to be able to change and be accepted by his parents and ward. His dad was a police office and Stake president in Copenhagen at one time. I met with this young man recently while I was in Denmark. He told me that hiding and living in the closet and trying to change had just become to much for him and he was suicidle. He finally went a psychiarist for clinical depression. He had been one of the most unhappy men when I met him. After accepting his homosexuality and becoming a marathan runner and finding a boyfriend, he is now a whole new person and so happy and vibrant instead of shy and insecure. He was so sweet and took me to see the Copenhagen temple. He said he is not hostile towards the church and loved his mission. He said the church is good for many people but it did not work for him. So, this needs to change.

Thanks for this post! Quite coincidently, I am seeing Carol Lynn’s daughter, Emily Pearson today. She’s a great friend and has quite an amazing story herself…but that’s another thread.

I am glad to hear the story of the Danish guy…and so glad to hear he has found peace. This issue is definitely a challenge for the caring leaders of the church, and a difficult one to “save face” with. Carol Lynn and Emily are doing their part to help the church evolve. Their play “Facing East” has done well on Broadway, and they just got funding to make it into a movie. It is a powerful, heart-breaking movie about an LDS couple at the cemetary after burying their gay son who just took his life. The dialogue is so familiar to us…then the partner shows up (the first time they’ve met him). The show will rip your heart out! But it really makes you feel compassion for the gays in the church.

I deeply hope we will see a change soon. Our people don’t need to suffer like they do.

[Anonymous]

Rix wrote:

Our people don’t need to suffer like they do.

This expresses my feeling about a lot of our (and others’) traditions: seeking riches to do good, taking up arms in memory of our families, “disciplining” our children instead of ourselves, witch hunts against the “they” (political, cultural, social, economic, religious). Oh, how our false traditions are making our people suffer needlessly!

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of people in the church ARE compassionate and I don’t think anyone wants to see anyone suffer unnecessarily. I can’t imagine what it must be like to struggle with SSA. This isn’t one of my struggles, but I do have a family member who I think is very angry with God over this.

I agree that the church doesn’t know what to do. But I do think there are a lot of people that want to find a better way. They want to be able to change AND feel as if they aren’t contradicting the law of chastity or the standards that most feel are correct. I am gonna admit that I don’t know how to think about it. I don’t know what to do about it. I feel like I walk on egg shells with this issue. I can’t accept the behavior or a lot of the policitcal and social attitudes that seem to attack my values, yet I do feel such a need to have more answers and direction so that I can form my opinions on more solid ground. I feel that only God can help us with this. I am afraid SSA behavior does change my entire definition of what is sexually moral. But in the same breath….there is a lot to be said for learning to love each other and learning to help each other along through really difficult trials.

You aren’t the only one….or the only group who has experienced life long struggles to feel or recognize the love of God. I have gotten tired of hearing the descriptions of feeling Gods arms around them . If God wasn’t a respector of person’s, then why did it seem that in this way He was? I struggled to believe that God loved me as I struggled with my own feelings of self love and acceptance. My mind has been changed though. I have actually had a few recent experiences that has changed the whole landscape of how I see things now.

I also feel that there are lots of problems that don’t have answers or quick fixes….not from medicine or therapists or science or clergy. And some of us must struggle for a life time. No it isn’t fair. But then again…..maybe it is. I believe we each get what we need to grow. I don’t like my struggles. They are hard and they discourage me and I fail often! But I am learning more about acceptance and about going with the tide instead of arguing with it all the time. I do my best and I hand the rest to God and I celebrate the tiniest of victories. In the end, suffering is suffering. Perhaps if we can’t understand each others problems, maybe we can each understand that.

[Anonymous]

I just finished writing about prenatal exposure to methamphetamine. It appears that exposure to this drug may interfere with androgen imprinting (the process that occurs in fetal life that gives the brain gender orientation). So, along with various and assorted neurological problems, premature birth, low birth weight, attention deficit disorder, drug withdrawal symptoms at birth these innocent survivors of methamphetamine exposure may be homosexual.

And it gets worse. Methamphetamine use is the number 1 cause of removal of a child from the home and placement in foster care. I just spoke with one young person who had been in 4 foster care homes before he was 11 – lots of confusion about families, relationships, love and sexuality.

My new philosophy is PREVENTATIVE TOXICOLOGY. I completely an advance course in clinical toxicology – all diagnostics. Now, all I want to know is,”how to we prevent the unborn from being exposed to meth”?

Oh and yea, over-the-counter diet drugs that contain amphetamines can also cause homosexuality. Why the he@@ are we allowing those drugs to be legal?

I see these ultra, right-wing conservative, LDS anti-gay crusaders who knowingly allow there own children to use illegal drugs – intravenous injections and all. If you really are that opposed to homosexuality, go home and check your teenagers veins.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this post! Quite coincidently, I am seeing Carol Lynn’s daughter, Emily Pearson today. She’s a great friend and has quite an amazing story herself…but that’s another thread.

I am glad to hear the story of the Danish guy…and so glad to hear he has found peace. This issue is definitely a challenge for the caring leaders of the church, and a difficult one to “save face” with. Carol Lynn and Emily are doing their part to help the church evolve. Their play “Facing East” has done well on Broadway, and they just got funding to make it into a movie. It is a powerful, heart-breaking movie about an LDS couple at the cemetary after burying their gay son who just took his life. The dialogue is so familiar to us…then the partner shows up (the first time they’ve met him). The show will rip your heart out! But it really makes you feel compassion for the gays in the church.

I deeply hope we will see a change soon. Our people don’t need to suffer like they do.[/quote]

I have read a little about Emily Pearson’s story. If I recall correctly she had had a very difficult time with her dad being gay and married a man that ended up being gay too. That it was very confusing to her for awhile because she believed God would help her get over the trauma of her dad. Instead, she ended up having to understand this issue (and what her mom went through) even more. I have also heard about ‘Facing East’. A lds SSA friend of mine in St. George Utah saw it while it played there. He is a far right wing, letter of the law kind of guy, who stands firmly with the church, but he did say it was very compassionate and heartfelt. I have talked to Stuart Matis’s parents several times (their son killed himself on the doorsteps of the stake center in Calif) and they wrote about their story “In Quiet Desperation”. I recall reading in our son’s journal which he kept during his teen years (we were desperate not knowing what was wrong, so read it). Our sweet son, who never swore and was so kind and loving, said the most horrible things about himself when he discovered his same-sex attraction. It always bothered me when I had read some church leaders say that it would be better to be dead than unchaste. Well, I would rather have my beautiful son gay and unchaste, than dead.

[Anonymous]

Wow, it’s been interesting to read some of the additional posts from the last 5 months. Thanks.

Quick update. I had pushed things further than my friend was comfortable, for which I felt bad and apologized after seeing how it affected him emotionally. So I sort of passively waited for him to decide and make a move. I got to the point where I was ok with whatever happened and would only act if he sent me clear signals. I fell deeply in love with him and my sexual attractions were oriented exclusively toward him. When he did show interest, he would then start to feel very bad about himself and felt like he was destroying his life and that he would need to cut me out of his life completely if things didn’t stay platonic. After quiet a bit of reflection and hurt, I believe I have arrived at the point where I can place him in the same space as all my other OSA friends, precisely because of how deeply I love him. I want him to feel good about himself around me and feel happy. I don’t want anything I do or let happen influence him to feel as sad as I’ve seen him. I want him to feel safe with me. I’m not claiming to be cured or anything, but I just don’t have an interest in trying to forge a relationship with him or any other man that is unsure of themselves. I am happy to have tickled my curiosity and to have discovered how deep I can truly love another person. But I would rather stay single my whole life than deal with the drama of trying settle down with him or any other man. And I sincerely say that I am ok with that.

I was able to attend my nephew’s baptism a few months ago and, in spite of my disbelief in many things Mormon, felt a desire to continue to improve and progress my life. I was a witness and participated in the confirmation. My nephew is a very sensitive kid and I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned out SSA himself. But I was glad that he got baptized and is a part of the Mormon community. I’ve always thought that the church did a pretty good job of protecting me from some of the really shitty things out there, even though it did a lousy of job protecting me from its own less desirable elements. And I hope for that same protection, acceptance, and peace for my nephew because I know he is going to need it.

While at the service, I also determined to speak with my Bishop. My bishop and I meet twice a week and have done so during the last 3 months. I’ve laid everything out on the table as far as my disbelief, past, and behavior is concerned. He is unlike any bishop I’ve ever met and is a sincere, charitable, and believing man. Our visits have been mostly positive. He seems to have a hard time understanding that while I may reject some of the factual and historical claims of the church, I still want to stay for communal and philosophical reasons. I guess I’m in Fowler’s 5th stage.

Anyway, take care everyone.

[Anonymous]

Hi ???

Thanks for updating us. Have you ever read the book, “In Quiet Desperation” by Ty Mansfield? I heard him speak at an Evergreen conference and had lunch with him. He is such a great and honest guy who has struggeled with his SSA as well but remains active in the church as a young single man. He just posted on the North Star lds forum for gays and their families and mentioned this:

There’s a brief narrative essay that addresses the topic of SSA in this month’s Ensign, “The Best Thing I Can Do for Leigh,” by Name Withheld, who consequently happens to be an ex-girlfriend of mine. It’s a pretty good essay, though I read a copy of this about three years ago when she first submitted it (when we were still together) and it’s pretty clear this has gone through Correlation. It doesn’t feel nearly as rich now as it did then–though, again, still good. Her sister is currently in a lesbian relationship.

There have been about 5 articles in the Ensign on this subject in the past 10 years. In the church and at Evergreen conferences where I have heard GA’s talk, there is much less emphasis on being able to change now but much more on unconditional love of those who have this trial. That is kind of what this latest article is about in the Sept. Ensign. Another mom who has a gay son I am friends with, sent an article she had written on porngraphy to have published in the Ensign. They wrote her back that the Ensign does not write about such topics. Well, we know they do now. My sister in law who lives in St. George Utah worked for years to get the church to address child abuse in their area and no one would listen to her. But she persisted and her local officials finally opened their eyes to child abuse there. They just thought this could not happen in this lds community. Progress maybe slow, and people can be irratating, but persistence does pay off. I admire you for trying to do the right thing. I know it is not easy with all the conflicts inside of you.

[Anonymous]

Welcome back, ???. I am glad to hear you are making progress. I hope you can find some peace too. I know the church has made progress in dealing with homosexuality, but it saddens me when even the situation is labeled a “trial,” a “challenge,” or even an “illness.” I’m sure there was a time in the recent past when being another race besides blue-eyed caucasion was considered the same by many. I think we’ll know we’ve come full circle when SSA is seen as a normal variation.

There was a “letter of the week” in the SLTrib yesterday I liked:

A dialogue

Public Forum Letter

Updated: 09/06/2009 09:08:11 AM MDT

“Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm.” True. So what?

“Deviations from the norm shouldn’t be allowed.” Get a life.

“What they do is disgusting.” Not to them.

“Well, it is to me.” So?

“It’s condemned in the Bible.” So is eating shellfish.

“That’s different.” Not to shellfish-lovers.

“If we allow homosexuality, we must allow pederasty and incest.” If we allow eating shellfish, we must also allow eating corpses.

“That’s different. Eating oysters has nothing to do with eating dead humans.” You grasp the point.

“Homo unions will destroy traditional families.” Eating shellfish will destroy kosher households.

“Thinking about homos gives me the creeps.” Thinking about you probably gives them the creeps .

“Everybody agrees that homosexuality shouldn’t be tolerated.” Homosexuals don’t.

“But their opinion doesn’t count, because … because they’re disgusting homosexuals!” Get a life.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rix…I loved the tribune post. I agree with what you said. Bridget

[Author]

Posts