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http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=16939956&comments=true This highlights the risks to members serving in callings where they have knowledge of possible crimes — even if they don’t have evidence other than a confession or a report. Sounds like this Bishop didn’t call the help line.
Now, I have a question. Let’s say I’m a Bishop’s Counselor or other Ward leader/member/home teacher, and someone reports a rape, or some other form of abuse to me, (in error, or because they trust me). Sounds to me like simply telling the Bishop isn’t enough — based on this man’s experience, it sounds like I have an obligation to report what I was told to the right legal authority, regardless of the Church line of authority and channels. Would you read it this way? How would you handle this is you were a Ward leader and someone told you about a teenage rape to avoid legal charges against you? Some of the things this Bishop did are clearly mistakes if the report is true, however, it sounds to me that as someone who knows about the event, I would have to be darn sure it got reported and that I’m not accused of giving bad advice — like not reporting it to the policy by the victim. Particularly if my Bishop doesn’t step up to the plate properly.
And although I have taken a more legalistic, self-protectionist angle on this news story for discussion, my heart goes out to the victim and their family who must feel terribly let down by their local Bishop and the experience as a whole!
Imo, someone who does not have legal confession rights of non-disclosure should report such crimes. That’s my take on it. I also think those who have such rights should do all they can to encourage those who confess to confess also to legal authorities, as part of true repentance. If someone isn’t willing to do so, I don’t think they truly are repentant. Having said that, I understand the reaons for ecclesiastical exemption and can’t insist that priests and others like that force confession or share confession.
In all cases, however, of such confession, I do believe in excommunication.
SilentDawning wrote:Now, I have a question. Let’s say I’m a Bishop’s Counselor or other Ward leader/member/home teacher, and someone reports a rape, or some other form of abuse to me, (in error, or because they trust me). Sounds to me like simply telling the Bishop isn’t enough — based on this man’s experience, it sounds like I have an obligation to report what I was told to the right legal authority, regardless of the Church line of authority and channels. Would you read it this way?
Perhaps the bishop crossed several lines: perhaps the first was in not reporting the allegations to authorities, perhaps the second was where he advised the YW not to report it as well. Thus the witness tampering charge.
What is my obligation if I know (or have had reported) that sexual harassment is happening in the workplace. My answer is to tell someone in a higher company position than me or HR. It is like Hot Potato and if you hold on to it you get burned.
Bringing this back to the case at hand…This does not necessarily resolve the moral dilemma, what if you report it to your bishop and he sits on it? The crime still goes unreported and justice (to the extent that the criminal justice system is capable of real justice) goes unfulfilled, a young woman suffers in silence…but at least you probably will not get prosecuted.
I had understood that if you have knowledge about another’s worthiness you should report what you know to the bishop and then stay out of it. I believe this philosophy came about to head off people that might hound the bishop with repeated suspicions about another person’s worthiness and why the bishop isn’t visibly acting on those suspicions.
I employed this myself when I heard a rumor that the married YW pres. was in a relationship with the Priest quorum pres. (or perhaps advisor is the correct term for the youth role). I informed the bishop of what I had heard and left it for him to worry about. Whatever the bishop did thereafter was none of my business and I did not pass the rumor along to any others. True or not, it didn’t seem my place to add flame to the fire. Perhaps I should have gone to this YM’s parents. I thought at the time that I had done my duty, now I just don’t know.
Of course this all has limited application to this scenario that includes the revelation of the actual victim and not just a rumor.
Quote:Bringing this back to the case at hand…This does not necessarily resolve the moral dilemma, what if you report it to your bishop and he sits on it? The crime still goes unreported and justice (to the extent that the criminal justice system is capable of real justice) goes unfulfilled, a young woman suffers in silence…but at least you probably will not get prosecuted.
See, this is the part I’m wondering about. If the Bishop sits on it, am I also guilty of not reporting it to the authorities? To what extent should I take full responsiblity for the legal reporting, leaving the Church issues to the Bishop? Again, I’m just curious what others think.
If I know of a crime, I am obligated to report it – especially something as heinous as child abuse. That, for me, is totally independent of telling a Bishop. Moral and legal responsibilities are completely different in these cases, imo – and I am able to fulfill both by telling both authorities. That also removes the pressure on the Bishop to report it, since he knows it is being reported.
Yes, there is a HUGE difference between priest-penitent privilege (where such privilege exists) and everyone else’s responsibilities.
IMO this bishop’s actions are indefensible. I’m not sure what his side of the story is, though. Was it clear from her description that it was an assault? Perhaps he thought she was confessing a consensual action. But based on the story, I am hopeful that the church will act swiftly and decisively to clarify for all bishops their responsibility to report crimes, especially when minors are involved. I agree with Hawkgrrl that you need to understand all parts of the story to make a “judgment”…but to my original question, I agree with Ray. I thought there were a couple tracks one could run on: 1) Tell the Bishop, and then follow-up with him to ensure the incident has been reported, and if he sits on it, report it yourself.
2) Tell the Bishop, and also advise him you are telling the police what you know, if you haven’t already.
I would hate for the lines of authority concept to muddy my judgment and then find myself a convicted felon as a result. Plus, these kinds of issues need to be dealt with swiftly for the benefit of the girl and the other potential victims out there.
If it has to do with a ‘sin’, tell the bishop, if you feel that someone must be told. If it has to do with a crime, without question tell the authorities. The legal details of what constitutes a crime and what a person’s responsibilities are with regard to knowing about such crimes probably vary from state to state, but I think that is a reasonably conscientious approach. Unfortunately, I’ve lived through this kind of scenario twice, once in my family, once with a friend who came to me asking what we should do. In both instances, the two different bishops instructed not to take it to authorities (police) but that the church discipline would resolve the matter. To be clear, two different bishops from two different wards provided the exact same advice, which actually sounds the same as what was portrayed in the news article linked above.
In both instances, after discussing with the bishop we didn’t feel right about it, and despite his advice, we planned to take it to the police and did, the police absolutely stated we needed to come forward and tell them…and action was taken, in the first case leading all the way to court and trials and conviction, the second case didn’t go that far but was just an agreement the individual was no longer allowed to attend our ward while the victim families were attending the ward.
In my experience, the bishops really didn’t know what to do, and were trying to be peacemakers, not offending other members of the congregation or assume the worst case scenario, but trying to give the benefit of the doubt…but really, it is like many other things, they are volunteers and not trained for severe cases.
It stresses the point, that although you go to bishops for advice and guidance, there are times you have to do what you feel is right, regardless of the bishop’s advice. I have no ill feelings towards either bishops I disagreed with, I love and support them (one has become a Stake President now), and both were supportive and sympathetic once we decided what to do…but the lesson learned was that if it involves my family, I have to be responsible for it and be willing to take action.
It would be nice and simple if I believed the bishop was inspired always and I could just follow his guidance always. But it doesn’t seem like God always works that way.
Difficult one. You should be able to talk to a bishop like a doctor, a psychiatrist or Catholic priest, and never have him repeat what you said… One of the dilemmas of life.
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