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happymom wrote:
Growing up I remember my mom constantly badgering me about modesty. I grew up in an mostly LDS community and usually was considered to be overly modest. If I wore a shirt that even showed some of my curves I was told that I was immodest. I felt like I was suppose to hide my body. I now where mostly what I want and still try to stay modest but I don’t want to badger my daughter to the point where she feels like her body is evil or something.
As for the Utah study, I noticed it only deals with online pornography. In other places, men probably get a lot of their fulfillment from topless bars or places like that. There is not as many places it seems in Utah like that and men are probably more likely to get caught. (This can also include women too.) I wonder if there is a higher percentage of online users because they are less likely to get caught.
I have a big issue with pornography as a woman. I saw a CNN.com article just about a week ago showing a study that indicated that when men saw women in bikinis or in a sexualized way, the part of their brain that lit up was the part that is used when working with tools. They were also more likely to talk in a first person language like “I push” “I use”. When they see women fully dressed they talk in third person language like “She walks” “She uses”. It also seems like many women feel the need to act stupid and sexual to get a guys attention. I see with with friends all of the time. Plus, having a dh who watches porn it is really hard to feel like he wants me and not just using me after viewing women who are way better looking that I will ever be. It’s hard to feel like you are not enough.
I’m all for enjoying ones self sexually, I just think people need to think about what they are doing first.
Thanks for your thoughts.
One of the ugliest but truest quotes I have ever seen on the subject of sex was from Elder Packer in an old Family Home Evening Manual I read in at the Chattanooga Stake Center library back in 1992: Packer said: “If is the male sex drive wasn’t both powerful and constant, men wouldn’t get into relationships with women and they wouldn’t stay in those relationships.” That is from memory, but I’m confident it is pretty close to verbatim.
Normally functioning heterosexual men are hard-wired and programed for sex. The part of the brain that lights up is the same part that lights up when they see a steak or a hammer and some nails. They just want to eat it/play with it/do it. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t marry you or stay married to you. It is really ugly, but it is generally true. Sorry.
Your husband looks at porn and that makes you feel devalued. I am truly sorry. The other extreme is also horrible–him just not being interested in sex and working late and on weekends all the time and picking up hobbies that don’t involve you when he does have free time. Sex drive is horrible–being subject to it’s demands is no picnic either. Sadly, most of us men struggle hard to find the right balance between embracing a healthy sexual side and disciplining it properly. But, having it is better than not having it.
Old-Timer wrote:Personally, I think masturbation should be mentioned in the general standards and simply not emphasized anywhere else – especially in interviews. That’s my two cents’ worth.
so you mean its in general standards such as “r” rated movies and such like
so more of a strong recomendation not a comandment?
Quote:so more of a strong recommendation not a commandment?
Yeah, that’s a pretty good summary.
I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived. 
happymom wrote:I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived.
Sometimes our weakness, or inability to control our bodies, causes us to give up hope. I’ve been through it myself. In my case I didn’t get addicted to porn (thank God – that would’ve REALLY beat me down), but I did use it often to facilitate my need for mindless, immediate gratification. For many years, I just gave up trying to stop because after trying and failing hundreds, maybe thousands of times (over 30 years), I couldn’t honestly keep the hope up.I guess I went through stages of trying and failing, then giving up, then trying and failing, ad infinitum. Or so it seemed. Over the years I learned new ways to work on it. Instead of praying to be able to stop, I began praying to be able to WANT to stop. In the end, God blessed me with testicular cancer, and I no longer have the problem at all. I sometimes am tempted to be depressed, thinking that God helped me ‘cheat’ instead of beating it all by myself, but then I come to my senses and thank God that She/He stepped in and dealt with it for me. Repentance is a lot like that, come to think of it.
HiJolly
HiJolly wrote:happymom wrote:I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived.
Sometimes our weakness, or inability to control our bodies, causes us to give up hope. I’ve been through it myself. In my case I didn’t get addicted to porn (thank God – that would’ve REALLY beat me down), but I did use it often to facilitate my need for mindless, immediate gratification. For many years, I just gave up trying to stop because after trying and failing hundreds, maybe thousands of times (over 30 years), I couldn’t honestly keep the hope up.I guess I went through stages of trying and failing, then giving up, then trying and failing, ad infinitum. Or so it seemed. Over the years I learned new ways to work on it. Instead of praying to be able to stop, I began praying to be able to WANT to stop. In the end, God blessed me with testicular cancer, and I no longer have the problem at all. I sometimes am tempted to be depressed, thinking that God helped me ‘cheat’ instead of beating it all by myself, but then I come to my senses and thank God that She/He stepped in and dealt with it for me. Repentance is a lot like that, come to think of it.
HiJolly
This is very disturbing imho. We hate our sex drive so much we think testicular cancer is a blessing? Wow.
HiJolly wrote:happymom wrote:I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived.
Sometimes our weakness, or inability to control our bodies, causes us to give up hope. I’ve been through it myself. In my case I didn’t get addicted to porn (thank God – that would’ve REALLY beat me down), but I did use it often to facilitate my need for mindless, immediate gratification. For many years, I just gave up trying to stop because after trying and failing hundreds, maybe thousands of times (over 30 years), I couldn’t honestly keep the hope up.I guess I went through stages of trying and failing, then giving up, then trying and failing, ad infinitum. Or so it seemed. Over the years I learned new ways to work on it. Instead of praying to be able to stop, I began praying to be able to WANT to stop. In the end, God blessed me with testicular cancer, and I no longer have the problem at all. I sometimes am tempted to be depressed, thinking that God helped me ‘cheat’ instead of beating it all by myself, but then I come to my senses and thank God that She/He stepped in and dealt with it for me. Repentance is a lot like that, come to think of it.
HiJolly
Hi Jolly,
Thanks for your story. That had to be very hard to go through. Any advice on how to be supportive to my dh. I don’t think I’m doing a very good job.
Bouvet wrote:
This is very disturbing imho. We hate our sex drive so much we think testicular cancer is a blessing? Wow.
I’m sorry you are disturbed by it. I am the one who lived it, and I am totally at peace.I understand that the entire conflict would not have existed except perhaps in a minor ‘socially acceptable’ way, were I not religious. And yes, some religions say masturbation is Ok, I know. But most religions that I have seen acknowledge that it is desirable to use our will to limit our natural tendencies. I personally believe that conscious self-limitation is the key to all spiritual progress.
I am blessed because now my heart, my mind and my actions are at last in synch. And FWIW, I never hated my sex drive, I hope you didn’t get that out of my comments.
HiJolly
happymom wrote:Hi Jolly,
Thanks for your story. That had to be very hard to go through. Any advice on how to be supportive to my dh. I don’t think I’m doing a very good job.
What is in your dh’s heart is the key. Does he want to be free of the compulsion? Is he addicted to sex, porn, or just “instant gratification” (IOW, does he over-eat, too)?Does he try to hide it? If so, what are his motivations in doing so? To escape censure? To spare your feelings? Does he try to “make it up to you” in one way or another?
Could this be a reaction or result of unmet needs he experienced as an infant? These questions are all so personal,
I don’t really want answers, unless you email or PM me, but even then I’m not a psychologist or anything. There are hundreds of nuances that could affect the whole situation. I went to a LDS Social Services counselor for about 6 weeks at one point, but that was a REAL waste of time, unfortunately. The counselor had no idea what my motivations and such were. That was a sad deal.
ANYWAY, I said all that because how he “is” will affect how you can support him in his needs. I think he needs to do everything he can to support your need to maintain your dignity and respect. You need to stand up for yourself. He needs to have hope in himself, in HF. I don’t really know how to say it. If I knew everything in your personal lives and your relationship and family lives, then I might could help. HF alreadys know it all—- so you’ve got to cling to Him. I know He can help. That’s my best advice.
HiJolly
Old-Timer wrote:Personally, I think masturbation should be mentioned in the general standards and simply not emphasized anywhere else – especially in interviews. That’s my two cents’ worth.
Ya, masturbation is about as sinful as picking your nose. Its a private behavior, but sometimes you just gotta do it, just like getting boogers out of your nose. Ok, not a perfect analogy but I think it still makes a point.
The castigation and shame mormon boys in particular are subjected to is psychological abuse in my opinion.
Packer used to actually suggest boys tie their arms to the bedpost at night so they wouldn’t touch themselves. Geeeez.
Skepti-cal – Packer gave the talk on “little factories.” Tying your arm to the bedpost was Mark E. Peterson. hawkgrrrl wrote:Skepti-cal – Packer gave the talk on “little factories.” Tying your arm to the bedpost was Mark E. Peterson.
Thanks for the correction. I’ve seen it attributed (apparently in error) to Packer, but I’ll take your word for it.
HiJolly wrote:I personally believe that conscious self-limitation is the key to all spiritual progress.
Whether to participate at all in this thread is an uncertainty to me, and yet HiJolly’s comments beg support. In the thick of reading Fowler’s Stages of Faith, I feel particularly inspired and oriented.
There appears to possibly be some miscommunication involved in the use of the word masturbation. I have heard sentiments about masturbation similar to the nose picking analogy in real life from personal acquaintances, and yet to be honest, they never made the least bit of sense to me (though the nose picking analogy is not without merit I could discuss). Life is a serious spiritual pursuit that requires clear and active focus and attunement. Sexual activity is a powerful distraction unless it is a part of a program of sacrificial love. And distractions are dangerous.
I think I can understand and sympathize with the dismay many feel about many ways masturbation is discouraged. Beyond that, I think I can identify with the resistant feelings many have to the idea that masturbation is unhelpful. I have felt similar feelings of either resistance or “eye averting” about things I know in my heart I should allow to permeate me and change me.
In another thread I mentioned about my dabbling with the word “hippy”.
Stages of Faithhas given me the answer to the word “hippy”. The answer was in my heart all along. The answer to “hippy” is “righteousness”. At the right time of life, the word “righteousness” suddenly comes from your past and answers a lot of questions in your present. For the record, I personally don’t equate masturbation with picking one’s nose. I simply don’t think it should be the focus of intense attention, especially for youth – and I think it’s instructive that I haven’t heard much about it lately from the global leadership.
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