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So there’s a recent article in the DesNews where the TBM author tries to rebut the claims that Mormons, or the Church, is “secretive.” http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865561288/Time-to-end-the-secrecy-allegation-against-Mormons.html ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865561288/Time-to-end-the-secrecy-allegation-against-Mormons.html My first, over-arching question is: Are you serious, dude? His rebuttal to the Church’s secrecy on finances, history, holocaust temple work, etc. is to say that since we offer missionaries to teach people and answer their questions, and we translate General Conference into mulitple languages, we’re obviously not too secretive.
I’d be willing to buy even just a bit of that if there was still a data-based accounting of Church finances at General Conference, as there used to be. Just a few questions for the author:
- I’d like to see an accounting of the tithes and offerings for CY2011. I’m a tithe payer, and would like to know where my money went. Can I see that?
I’d like to know what the operating budget for BYU, BYU-I, BYU-H and the other Church schools is. Can I see that?
I’d like to know how much money the GAs make for being GAs. Can I see that?
I’m writing a history of early Church doctrine as compared to current doctrine. Could I please have unfettered, unrestricted access to the Church archives?
I’d like to know if I’m being investigated by any Church committees. Will you give me copies of any record the Church has containing my personal info?
The list of questions could go on and on. And every one would be answered with a negative. So, to the author of this piece, if you want to try and argue that the Church isn’t secretive, that’s fine. “Secretive” is a subjective word. But don’t tell me that because we send undertrained missionaries out to teach pre-scripted discussions and we translate Conference into 50 languages that we’re fully open and transparent. That’s just a terrible, lazy argument.
I don’t know if I can accept what this guy says…in his picture he’s wearing a green shirt. (A little humor.) I noticed that the author has an email address. Try sending him your concerns. I would curious if he would
send you an answer.
Mike from Milton.
ps. Good points by the way.
One has nothing to do with the other. To quote a friend “fail logic is fail”. *sigh* That’s all.
Quote:I’d like to see an accounting of the tithes and offerings for CY2011. I’m a tithe payer, and would like to know where my money went. Can I see that?
I’d like to know what the operating budget for BYU, BYU-I, BYU-H and the other Church schools is. Can I see that?
I’d like to know how much money the GAs make for being GAs. Can I see that?
I’m writing a history of early Church doctrine as compared to current doctrine. Could I please have unfettered, unrestricted access to the Church archives?
I’d like to know if I’m being investigated by any Church committees. Will you give me copies of any record the Church has containing my personal info?
These aren’t secret, they are just sacred.
😈 I agree you should email the author, it would be interesting to see the response. Honestly, there are somethings on this list that bother me and some that don’t.
Accounting of tithing: YES there should be way more transparency here!
School Budgets: I think that church schools are worth it for the church for self-propagation. Putting members of marriageable age together makes it worth the cost. I assume their operating budgets are similar to other schools of similar size. Except as would be disclosed in a general accounting of tithing expenditures this doesn’t worry me in particular.
I’m not worried about GA’s salaries, I assume they are commensurate with what other people on the board of directors of major corporations make.
Doctrine: Yeah, that would be really great. I can see only opening the full archives to serious researchers, not the general public. But I would like to see it. I don’t think it will ever happen though.
Church Committees: ABSOLUTELY! There is no reason you shouldn’t be able to know what is going on when it comes to your own information.
I always thought it was ironic that the Family History Library has millions of church records, but our own records are the most restricted.
rebeccad wrote:I’m not worried about GA’s salaries, I assume they are commensurate with what other people on the board of directors of major corporations make.
I once read a quote from a GA calling the money a glorified stipend – wish I could remember the quote better but the idea is that it is supposedly very modest.
It is modest – just like BYU professors, coaches and other Church employees generally make substantially less than their comparable professionals in other places. I suppose the Temple stuff adds to the notion of secretiveness. Yet it is actually fairly easy to get to the baptismal font in them, and can be done within a few weeks of joining.
Roy wrote:rebeccad wrote:I’m not worried about GA’s salaries, I assume they are commensurate with what other people on the board of directors of major corporations make.
I once read a quote from a GA calling the money a glorified stipend – wish I could remember the quote better but the idea is that it is supposedly very modest.
Just remember, it’s not the pay, it’s the freebies.
I don’t think they earn much, but since everything is paid for, such as travel, accomodation and food, wherever they go, it doesn’t matter.
SamBee wrote:I suppose the Temple stuff adds to the notion of secretiveness.
Yet it is actually fairly easy to get to the baptismal font in them, and can be done within a few weeks of joining.
It does, the idea of sacred(which I agree with) and secret are to different words. I openly talk with reverence about the temple and rituals to those that are genially interested. I approach it the same way as when we mention the savour name, with reverence but not secrets. Both are a huge simile to me on my approach to nip misinformation in the butt. I may not have had many converts in my life sharing I formation(just a few) but I wasn’t trying to. I was just trying to
Genuinely share info. The much bigger effect that I have seen is to watch people go from a fear of Mormons trying to convert all and make submissive. To a genuine feel that we(or at least not all of us) aren’t out to convert, subvert and “hide” our real agenda. A symbol is just a symbol, it has no power but what we choose to give it. Just as we choose to give a diffferent symbol to the meaning of Halloween other then the original event that created it. Just as my african American friends have tooken back the symbol of the N word by using it on each other and forbidding it with others. No symbols have any real power what ever they mean(or not) to us. Including our attire. What we have here is a symbol with 2 different meanings to different groups.
The guy is either really clueless or really disingenuous. It’s easy to see why he isn’t practicing journalism any longer. Old-Timer wrote:It is modest – just like BYU professors, coaches and other Church employees generally make substantially less than their comparable professionals in other places.
Maybe. Probably. But unfortunately you can’t say this with certainty…unless you have more access to church financials than the rest of us.
Underlines the problem. The perceived cover up is probably worse than the crime.
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One thing that really gets my goat, “Sacred not secret”. I always thought the truth was in the best interest of the members. Of course I am not into spin doctoring, rationalization, nuanced approaches and all the other means of manipulation that seems so prevalent in todays world. Quote:I always thought the truth was in the best interest of the members.
Amen.
We see some things differently, so we don’t agree completely all the time about what “the truth” is, but I agree completely with the sentence above.
- I’d like to see an accounting of the tithes and offerings for CY2011. I’m a tithe payer, and would like to know where my money went. Can I see that?
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