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I really enjoyed the Robert Kirby interview. I too love humor (I think it is the only way I keep 1/2 sane). Bushman said something interesting. He said when people come to him with a faith crisis he used to ask what the issues were. Now he asks what is their relationship with God (or was it Christ?) and if they say, “I am good with that” then he is fine. I am trying to figure that statement out.
It does jive with another comment I have heard of Dr. Bushman. Someone asked him about how many that leave the LDS faith don’t just leave Mormonism, but become atheists. He said it was a poor reflection on Mormonism not leading people to first have a relationship with Christ.
Bill, absolute home-run interview with columnist Robert Kirby! A must listen for anyone that is interested in StayingLDS. You sounded like you were having so much fun and were able to really draw great conversation from him that I have heard nowhere else. Robert Kirby undoubtedly belongs on the Mount Rushmore of StayLDS-ers. 
[img]http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Miller-Adam-2.jpg [/img] 171 – PERSPECTIVES: Adam S. Millerhttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/” class=”bbcode_url”> Following up on our ‘Perspectives’ Series, we sit down with Adam Miller. Adam is the Author of “Rube Goldberg’s Machine”, “Letters to a Young Mormon”, and “Grace is not God’s Backup Plan”.
Adam offers his thoughts and expresses his ruminations on Mormonism and how he makes some of the difficult issues work and the hard work that goes into reconciling them.
[img]http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/download.jpg [/img] 173: A Blog About Lovehttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/” class=”bbcode_url”> Today I sit down with Danny and Mara Kofoed. We talk about how to find your inner peace. We talk about their faith journeys and how life’s trials taught them important lessons on how to find peace amidst difficulties in life. They hit on why we sometimes cause ourselves to suffer so needlessly and they hep us to understand how, if we desire, we can let go of much of that angst and begin to find true inner peace. We also talk about their blog ABlogAboutLove.com They also hold retreats to help others find this inner peace along with mentoring.
I want to add a note. I was made aware of Danny and Mara by two really good friends of mine who attended one their retreats. These two dear friends have shared with me this has made a world of difference. Having now spoken to the Kofoed’s at length I can say their effort comes from a place of love and concern and I hope hear them out as our community needs nothing more right now than peace and healing.
I have listened and this is quite interesting. I am interested in their possessing peace. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LookingHard wrote:I have listened and this is quite interesting. I am interested in their possessing peace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They are on facebook and you can message them on their blog as well. You should reach out to them. They are genuine good people
Lots of NEW episodes. This one is one I wish would make its rounds as I care so much for those being hurt. Are There Homosexuals in Heavenhttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/” class=”bbcode_url”> Today I wrestle with the recent commentary of Elder Bednar on Homosexuality. I am sorry if I am too harsh or if my criticisms are unfair. I welcome anyone in Church authority to sit down with me and others and work through the data and questions that are out there that no one in leadership is addressing. These are begging to be asked. The Church’s answers and commentary are insufficient on this issue and it feels that the real questions begging to be asked are being ignored or changed.
FRAUD or DIVINE???? ***NEW**** EPISODE!!!
[img]http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/FraudOrDivine.jpg [/img] 211: Fraudulent Narrative of the Book of Mormonhttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/05/fraudulent-narrative-of-the-book-of-mormon/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/05/fraudulent-narrative-of-the-book-of-mormon/ The Book of Mormon is a fraud you say? Joseph Made it up or stole the ideas from someone else? If only it were that simple. Today I sit down with two friends, Chris and Clay. We talk about ways in which to corroborate a fraudulent narrative of the Book of Mormon. Who could have been involved and how the narrative would have to flow based on who is in on it and who is being duped along with what it should look like if Joseph is truly plagiarizing sources to create a fictional work. Is “The Book of Mormon” a fake? Maybe… that conclusion certainly is reasonable. Yet, as we explore in today’s episode, to create a coherent historical narrative that explains the ins and outs of how such a hoax could be pulled off seems to have just as many issues if not more than simply believing in the divine nature of the book. The witnesses, Emma, Rigdon, Spaulding, View of the Hebrews, Late War, Savant, Genius, Photographic memory, and everything in between is explored in just over an hour…….. Is there room for faith?…… the choice was always yours!
And the naysayers said I was getting to critical. The critics say I am too faithful and can’t figure why I stay. The orthodox say I have lost my way……. I am think that is called balanced and reasonable.
[img]http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/mason.jpg [/img] 220: Patrick Mason – Plantedhttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/06/premium-patrick-mason-planted/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/06/premium-patrick-mason-planted/ You want validation? You want someone who gets just how messy this is and to say so publicly? You wish there were scholars who went just a little further to acknowledge the struggle being had in Mormonism…… Welcome Patrick Mason
Today I sit down with Patrick Mason, LDS scholar and author of the new book “Planted”. We talk about doubt, the struggle that a faith transition is. We talk about the messiness of issues and what is needed for us to better support our struggling brothers and sisters. Patrick takes on all questions and pulls no punches. This is as honest and authentic as anyone I have had on the podcast. If you do nothing else, purchase planted and read chapter 1 and give it to those whose support you need. From the first Chapter he deals empathetically and honestly with both the doubter and the person who loves and supports them. What an amazing interview….. I hope you like it.
I listened to the podcast this morning and really enjoyed it. It calmed me down a bit. 🙂 Listened to it last night. Slowly been listening to different things on the site when i have time. Enjoying them all so far, thanks. Thank you for the Patrick Mason podcast. I already read his book (Planted), but didn’t really get that much help from it. However, I really enjoyed the podcast and I thought it was great! 
[img]http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/vision.jpg [/img] 221: First Vision – The Founding Event Of The RestorationYou want an in-depth deep dive into the first vision narrative….. here it is
I sit down with Chris and Clay again and this time we are dissecting the First Vision and all that surrounds it. We talk about the four First Hand accounts and their discrepancies as well as similarities. We explore the historical context of each account, who the audience is, what factors into why Joseph perhaps shapes each account the way he does. We talk about the valid reasons to see contradictions and why some lose faith but we also “lead with faith” showing that their are valid and serious ways to tackle this issue that actually build faith in Joseph and in the sincerity of his “First Vision”.
http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.orghttp://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org” class=”bbcode_url”> Thanks Bill for sharing this podcast. I very much see the first vision as a vision presented to the mind of JS. I further believe that the appearance of the Angel Moroni was visionary. Finally, I believe that the gold plates themselves were visionary.
I believe that the lines that we in modern times would draw between vision and visitation were not as clear and distinct to Joseph and his contemporaries.
A few points on each.
First Vision:
1) It is called a vision. 2) Joseph came to himself and was lying on his back as though he was not fully awake/aware before. 3) There are some discrepancies between the accounts that are more forgivable if they were visionary and dreamlike and ethereal. 4) The doctrine of the Godhead definitely evolved from that point. I believe it was the evolution of this doctrine that informs our telling and interpretation of the fist vision. I do not believe that from the moment JS had the vision that he disbelieved the trinity. 5) We have many witnesses to the receiving of D&C 76, a.k.a. “the vision”. If that experience is any precedent, then a vision can be understood as something appearing to the mind or “in the mind’s eye” that would not be visible to other people present in the same room.
Moroni:
1) Moroni seems to descend through the ceiling of the small family home.
2) Nobody else woke up to the light or the conversation happening in the room.
3) Bill, you had mentioned that JS was physically exhausted from his experience but it was also reported after the D&C 76 revelation that Sidney Rigdon was exhausted. It appears that seeing visions can in and of itself be exhausting.
4) In some church publications this is referred to as a vision. It appears that regardless of whether or not Moroni was himself a vision that other visionary experiences were being shown to Joseph in conjunction with the words of Moroni. Thus, when JS reports “commanded me to go to my father and tell him of the
visionand commandments which I had received.” it is left ambiguous what JS included in the word vision. 5) We have precedence of heavenly messengers appearing and even bestowing priesthood keys through visions. D&C 110 states: “After rising from prayer, the following vision was opened to both of us.” and “The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.”
6) Prior to receiving the plates and translating the BoM, JS would “amuse his family with tales of the Nephites “as though he had spent his whole life among them.” One possible explanation for this is that Joseph had seen the happenings of the ancient Nephites in vision at his annual tutorial sessions with Moroni at the Hill Cumorah.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/%22Amusing_recitals%22_of_ancient_American_inhabitants Golden Plates:
1) After JS removes the plates for the first time and then sets them on the ground (in disobedience to the command of Moroni) then they disappear and then reappear back in the stone box. This is outside my realm of experience. 2) JS translates using the stone in the hat method without the plates being physically present. (Hypothetically, if JS could see the rise and fall of the Nephite nation through vision or through vision could read and translate ancient records that were not present in the room then why go to all the trouble of retrieving the plates from the hill in the first place. It seems to me that to keep them hidden there would have been the safest place for them.) 3) With the BoA and the Book of Moses, JS later displays his ability to retrieve prophetic/visionary text from ancient sources without any source text being physically present in front of JS. 4) The experience with the cave and the room filled with records in the Hill Cumorah seems to very unlikely to be physically true. There as several theories but I believe that the best one is that it was a purely visionary experience.
Finally, The modern church would have us posit that these experiences either physically happened or they didn’t – that JS was a prophet who was physically visited by God and Jesus or he was a liar – all true or all false. This just doesn’t square with my nuanced understanding of church history. I believe that JS had visions not terribly unlike some of his contemporaries. I believe that he felt called to form a church that has been the cause of much good (some bad too but also much good). It is my journey and effort to stay LDS that compels me to see these things through the lens of visions and mysticism. It is the grey area between the false dichotomy.
I hate to step out in front of Bill on this, but I have to say that he just released a very interesting podcast on the Adam God “historical subterfuge” (or “Adam God doctrine / theory”). Adam God Historical SubterfugeHe is interviewing Corbin Volluz who is someone that I really love the logic that he has along with his study. There is also a really interesting comment from KarlS about the leaked letter (listen to the podcast first and then it will make more sense.)
Bill – accept my apology if I am overstepping by announcing this. I am just so excited. I am going to listen to this again.
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