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Old-Timer wrote:
Most things aren’t black-and-white, and most people who say they learn something new when they go the temple aren’t lying or being deceitful in any way. Many people don’t learn new things, but those who do aren’t learning new things directly from the ordinances themselves; rather, they are having thoughts hit them as the ordinances happen. Quiet, peaceful places tend to inspire that sort of learning – and temples are that sort of place for a lot of people. Mountains or special meditation rooms (or multiple other examples) works for others.
I haven’t learned anything new directly from the ordinances most of the times I have attended the last couple of decades (even though it does happen occasionally, sometimes with quite important insights), but I have learned a lot quite often from attending. Otoh, I also don’t tell people I learn something new every time I attend – but I have no problem saying I learn things regularly in the temple.
We shouldn’t disparage people who say things like that. Most of them are sincere and being honest.
I agree. I have come to think that the celestial room is the closest thing most active Mormons would be to practicing mindfulness or meditation. It is the only time they are “allowed” to sit and contemplate and not feel like they need to go DO something.Quote:Now that we have a temple in our city, married couples are encouraged to have temple date nights. I can’t think of a worse date! We don’t get to talk to each other or even sit on the same side of the room!
I don’t care much for the temple….there I said it! That’s a big deal for me given I have felt this way for a long time but never openly said it. I don’t go to the temple much. My wife occasionally suggests going for “date night” (ugh! I hate that term…why do we in the Church have to turn everything into a “program”). But I point out to her the very thing quoted above. (Luckily my wife doesn’t pressure me about going to temple). I haven’t done initiatory in years. I was always uncomfortable with it and I know it has changed a great deal but I just simply won’t do it. Sealings every once in a while because they don’t take too long. The only thing I like about the endowment is the Celestial Room.
Quote:I agree. I have come to think that the celestial room is the closest thing most active Mormons would be to practicing mindfulness or meditation. It is the only time they are “allowed” to sit and contemplate and not feel like they need to go DO something.
I agree. I wish our chapels could be those kinds of places but such practice in the chapel doesn’t seem commensurate with our LDS culture.
Heber13 wrote:LookingHard wrote:Roadrunner wrote:For many the biggest (only?) downside of no temple recommend is no being able to attend sealings or first time endowments of family members. I don’t know if that is an issue for you now or in the near future. I can’t bear the thought of my kids getting married in the temple and my wife being there to support and I have to wait outside.
That is a big concern for me also, but the scales are tipping where I might be willing to suffer that.
I’m glad you acknowledge that…I really think it isn’t the end of the world to wait outside the temple and support them when they come out. I get that it isn’t ideal and makes for some awkwardness…but it isn’t the end of the world. It’s an option.I don’t know if I can get to this point. Intellectually I understand that I’m still there and I’m still supporting them and I know exactly what is happening on the inside. Like most things in the temple it’s about the symbolism. It bothers me that I’m symbolically left outside because I’m not judged worthy to participate – even though I’m a primary reason they are at the temple. Also the symbolism of the couple choosing the temple over a father’s presence at a marriage – I think that would hurt. Of course you can say a family member chooses to not enter the temple and that is also true to a point.
Let’s just say that since my faith crisis I have a new level of sympathy for parents of converts or others who are not able to participate in family events inside the temple.
Roadrunner wrote:Let’s just say that since my faith crisis I have a new level of sympathy for parents of converts or others who are not able to participate in family events inside the temple.
As do I. More sympathy and more understanding, and actually more wishing it was different because I view it from the other perspective now, from the outside looking in.
A loving family that can hug each other and express wishes they could be inside if it were possible can overcome the feelings it creates when they can’t be inside. But I won’t try to pretend it isn’t painful or hard.
jgaskill wrote:Hi everyone well after much debate and my trying to leave the church for a 2nd time my wife agreed to a reduced level of participation by me. I Love the church just not certain aspects of it. I for one do not enjoy going to the temple . I find it boring and uninspiring . So to stay LDS my wife agreed although it was not easy for her to let me skip all the temple stuff forever !!!!!!!! this may sound like I am leaving a big part of Mormonism out but I find it very much a relief . I can do without going to the temple and find myself more willing to go to church consistently . I would like some of your feedback on this issue and wonder if anyone else has the same view ? Thanks.
In the last five years I have probably only gone two or three times when it was not associated with a sibling or someone close to me receiving their own endowment. I bet you would be surprised how many people just don’t go that often.
Cadence wrote:One of the things that bothers me is when leaders or anyone tells you how wonderful the temple is, and how they learn something new every time they go. NO it is not wonderful and no you do not learn anything new, at least nothing inspiring like they allude to.
Sorry that bothers you, I think it would be more accurate to say “I do not learn anything new” instead of “YOU do not learn anything new”. A lot of people are inspired by the temple and go to connect with God and ponder their current life problems while stepping back and looking at it from the bigger picture “eternal perspective”. The ordinances, including the endowment help a lot of people do that, including myself.
Since a lot of the temple is not explained explicitly, you are left to figure it out for yourself, or consider possible meanings. For example, I have done this with the temple clothing, trying to imagine what each piece could represent. I think you can go overboard trying to give everything meaning, especially if you start to take it all too literally. Ideas like these may not be what you consider learning, but they are beautiful, personal, and inspiring. So, yes, I do learn something when I go, mostly I learn something about myself and my values. It’s not always that way for me and it’s not that way for everybody.
Unknown wrote:Since a lot of the temple is not explained explicitly, you are left to figure it out for yourself, or consider possible meanings. For example, I have done this with the temple clothing, trying to imagine what each piece could represent. I think you can go overboard trying to give everything meaning, especially if you start to take it all too literally. Ideas like these may not be what you consider learning, but they are beautiful, personal, and inspiring. So, yes, I do learn something when I go, mostly I learn something about myself and my values. It’s not always that way for me and it’s not that way for everybody.
I remember my institute teacher saying that everything in the temple represents the Savior. We had a class on the ancient tabernacle and we went over the little specific details and how they could relate back to Christ.
For a time I was counting things. Are there twelve pleats in this temple robe? Are there seven candles on this chandelier? How many couches in the celestial room?
I now believe that the temples have some symbolism that is intentional.
There is also symbolism that is not intentional but may be derived by the individual.
Like when one reads a book and sees a scene as a metaphor for something else. Is it ok if the author did not intend to put the metaphor there? Is it ok that we as readers can derive new meaning from old words?
Roy wrote:
Like when one reads a book and sees a scene as a metaphor for something else. Is it ok if the author did not intend to put the metaphor there? Is it ok that we as readers can derive new meaning from old words?I think so. I think it can lead to a greater sense of self awareness because the stories and meaning and individual creates, regardless of the author’s intent, says something about who you are and what you value. I think Terryl Givens expressed something similar when he made the case for choosing to believe in The God Who Weeps. What you believe says something about the condition of your heart.
I did a fair amount of counting myself, and sometimes, yes, there were twelve of something somewhere, but once in a while there would be 13 or 15. What now? Maybe I could still create some meaning out of that, but if not, I would just move on.
:thumbup: I learned a few things early on…the explicit things like consequences for doing the wrong thing. But mostly how God created. How he designed the world in pictures first and then went to imolemention, the role of delegation. And a top down leadership style ( In that really divinity at work or is that just a manifestation if church culture?) . but after that the learning dried up.
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Since I first wrote on this subject back in Aug. I have had a change of heart concerning the temple. I have come to embrace temple worship by concentrating on Jesus Christ and not the masonic symbolism. I think prayers are answered more readily in the temple and our heavenly father recognizes the sacrifice made to attend . I would recommend the temple for all !!!!!! I am glad you find peace and connection there – truly happy. I also enjoy the temple – but I can’t recommend it to everyone. I know too many people for whom it is not peaceful, happy, or joyful. I hope it can continue to evolve, as it has many times in our history, so it is a place I can recommend more and more over time to more and more people.
jgaskill wrote:I think prayers are answered more readily in the temple and our heavenly father recognizes the sacrifice made to attend .
I suppose the same thing could be said about Mecca. That prayers are answered more easily there and the God/Allah recognizes the sacrifice made to attend. However, Mecca would not be the same experience for everyone. We could chalk that up to a difference in spiritual attunement (with those that do not find it as fulfilling being less spiritual), but I believe the truer answer just comes from different perspectives. It simply would not be as meaningful for a Mormon regardless of how spiritual or devout they are.
Roy wrote:jgaskill wrote:I think prayers are answered more readily in the temple and our heavenly father recognizes the sacrifice made to attend .
I suppose the same thing could be said about Mecca. That prayers are answered more easily there and the God/Allah recognizes the sacrifice made to attend. However, Mecca would not be the same experience for everyone. We could chalk that up to a difference in spiritual attunement (with those that do not find it as fulfilling being less spiritual), but I believe the truer answer just comes from different perspectives. It simply would not be as meaningful for a Mormon regardless of how spiritual or devout they are.
Maybe another way of putting this… ?
If we believe that our prayers are answered more readily in the temple then they are.
We also recognize the sacrifice we made to attend, that’s what makes the temple special in our minds.
When I was made bishop, one of the surprising things (there was lots!) was the number of very active members of the ward that did not have a TR, and wanted no part of it. One had a non-member wife, another just didn’t want to go. Each had there own reasons.
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