Mormons believe in being chased by Elephants

[Anonymous]

I will always remember one Sunday School class experience, I was eleven or twelve, a little homesick (spending another summer on the farm in Utah). A returned missionary opened the class by asking “did you know that Mormons believe in being chased by Elephants?” I remember laughing, then quickly going from incredulous to credulous, because this handsome all knowing teacher was letting us in on something, and he remained somber and stoic for just the right amount of time. I remember being willing to believe.

It turned out that his lesson was on the thirteenth article of faith “We believe in being honest, true, chase, benevolent…

and he helped us memorize that article that day.

I notice that people on this site inculcate wiggle room on what Mormon doctrine is, so I’d like to throw out a challenge.

There is one article of faith wherein the word “literal” is used by Joseph Smith. Article 10.

“We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion will be built upon this (the American) continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.”

I perceive that a majority of contributors here are younger. Does this concept of the blood of Israel, gathering, affinity to other tribes “gathering” to their appointed destinies, etc., still have currency with Mormons in their thirties?

Do you take it literally, or not?

[Anonymous]

That is a funny play on words

Well … when Joseph Smith wrote the Articles of Faith, there wasn’t a political state of Israel, a homeland for the Jews as a gathering place. Now there is such a place. So can anyone really say there isn’t a literal gathering of Israel going on? I feel pretty comfortable with that being literal, and I am pretty non-literal in my approach to the Church these days.

I think the earth will be a paradise, when we finally evolve and make it into such a place. Jesus might come down and fix it all for us … who am I to say it won’t happen that way. I personally gave up on waiting for miracles after being disappointed too many times, so I am not waiting. I am going to work on making the world a paradise now.

There has to be at least a little wiggle room to maneuver around within Mormon doctrine, since our teaches are constantly changing and are being refined. The Church itself wiggles around and adapts on some levels.

On the subject of age, the people that run the site are all in their 40’s. I think the average age of participants here is probably higher than you are thinking.

[Anonymous]

Well, I just read 3 Nephi 29 this morning with regards to the literal gathering of Israel and the restoring them to the lands of their inheritance….not to mention all the other promises God made to Israel. In the last vs the Lord makes it pretty clear he won’t forget these promises…..so I am pretty sure the gathering process is literal.

It is also a spiritual gathering process too.

[Anonymous]

I am open to it being literal and spiritual OR spiritual only. However, I like to run around on blogs that talk about it in a literal sense.

Honestly, I think what is important is bringing about our own second coming. Finding and living the truth-our true path-love and charity is sufficient to do our part.

[Anonymous]

Bear with me- another quick story.

Just a few months into my mission, I’m at a zone conference, missionaries standing in the hall between workshop sessions and the public phone rings. One of the Elders I flew out with answers, puts the phone to his chest and says “It’s the President of the Church, he wants to speak with President Clarke.” We all laughed, then noticed he was turning pale and serious.

The Mission Assistants hurried us to our classrooms so that the President could take the call from THE President.

Ten minutes later, one of the Assistants came into our room and somberly said that it was President Lee on the phone… He slowly walked front and center to the room, looked at us and slowly said, “Elders, that was the President: we’ve been called to Missouri.”

Back in the day- it sent chills and euphoria through us.

Then, he winked… admitted that the part about Missouri was made up.

Reason for the story? Back then the messianic message of gathering (already such a manifest destiny of Mormonism, literally) was literally supposed to continue. The building of the temple in Missouri, too. Oh, and by the way, the Lamanites were to play a big part in the building.

The tribes of Joseph and Judah (Utah mountain tops & Israel’s fruited plains) and the lost 10 tribes: these beliefs were widely discussed and anxiously anticipated. How about now?

[Anonymous]

primarycolor wrote:

Reason for the story? Back then the messianic message of gathering (already such a manifest destiny of Mormonism, literally) was literally supposed to continue. The building of the temple in Missouri, too. Oh, and by the way, the Lamanites were to play a big part in the building.

The tribes of Joseph and Judah (Utah mountain tops & Israel’s fruited plains) and the lost 10 tribes: these beliefs were widely discussed and anxiously anticipated. How about now?

I don’t know about those particular beliefs, but I know that my Book of Mormon Seminary teacher told us (back in 1963) that the Second Coming was going to take place in the year 2000, give or take a year or two. He’s probably in his late 70s now. I wonder what he’d have to say about his prophesy (which, of course, most of his students bought hook, line and sinker).

[Anonymous]

The saints in Joseph’s day were VERY much into millenialism. So was the whole country for that matter. Mormons were not unique in that aspect, which is probably why that message resonated with so many people.

After reading a lot of early Church history, I am of the opinion they thought the second coming was going to come any moment. It did not happen like JS thought. *shrug* that doesn’t bother me too much though.

[Anonymous]

I’m not big on this, mostly because Missouri just doesn’t seem like a place I want to live someday (really anywhere in the midwest). It’s too darn cold! However, I do like ketchup on my eggs.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the saints were told to gather in Figi? Or maybe Majorca…..

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

I’m not big on this, mostly because Missouri just doesn’t seem like a place I want to live someday (really anywhere in the midwest). It’s too darn cold!

Cold … yeah, that’s what I think of too.

I went through Army basic training at Fort Lost in the Woods ( Ft. Leonard Wood), Missouri in January … the dead of winter. We always made sure to pronounce Missouri like “Misery.” That memory of spending 2+ months outdoors (for the most part) in the winter is what I think of when I hear people talk about gathering there … 😯

I feel really bad when I hear the stories of the saints being driven out of their homes.

[Anonymous]

I’m in my 30’s, I guess I’m the target demographic!

I’m with Valoel on this one: millenialism was a huge part of the religious revivalism which gripped most of the U.S. in the 1820’s-30’s. There were movements that actually started the “gathering” process to Jerusalem at this time and interest of the middle east, specifically Palestine and the Arabian peninsula were very high. (Actually, this is why the apologetics who claim JS couldn’t have described the Arabian peninsula so perfectly may be mistaken)

In fact, alot of the current embracing of “Jews” and the state of Israel by protestant sects in the U.S. can be traced to this time period. It’s also not an accident that the details of slavery in Egypt and Palestine as counted in the OT were used extensively by southern protestant sects of this same era. The Calvinistic overtones of this religious revival period were immersed in the OT, so prophecies by Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. were a big deal, and the “Apocalypse” was seen as an imminent prospect.

So, as for the “prophecy” of JS, he was not alone in his time in believing this. And, given the growth of the American empire over the last 150 years, the strength of the christian denominations in the U.S., and the overwhelming acceptance of OT doctrines in more modern protestantism, I see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I know, that’s cynical, but if everyone “wants” something to happen, it will happen. If, the Muslim world had remained the dominant force in the world, some of their “prophecies” would probably have happened by now too. Come to think of it, some of them have.

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

I know, that’s cynical, but if everyone “wants” something to happen, it will happen.

I don’t think it has to be negative though. That was a vibrant theme of Joseph’s time period. You can look at in two ways, which may in fact both be true to some extent or another:

1. Joseph was a brilliant religious leader. I’ve heard it said that great leaders figure out which way the crowd is heading, then jump out in front and loudly sound the charge.

2. Maybe the whole gathering of Israel is in fact a direction God is heading. Joseph (and others) were tapping into a sense of this. That is what “prophets” do, isn’t it? They tap into the will of God, and help bring it to the consciousness of the masses. A large number of people were tapping into this sense of the future. That is why so many groups dropped everything to follow the spirit of millenialism. The “prophets” put it into words for them.

[Anonymous]

I havent been on for some time! Literally thinking the saints, from ALL around the world nonetheless, would all need to go to one crummy state in the US .. Is silly. Saints are throughout the whole Earth now – Can all of the poor..Oceans away families really be asked to come here .. Will the Church pay for them all to come? – God can make anything happen BUT I seriously don’t buy it. I do believe it in a literal way BUT .. Does The Church know exactly what will go down .. imo Nope .. Do I know exactly what will happen .. Nope. But will I be prepared for it .. Yes. Do I have faith that it will happen someday .. Yes. Does it matter if it happens in China .. Missouri .. My basement .. The whole Earth – No not at all. Btw – Every (crazy-Oops sorry if you are one of them) thinks the world will end in their lifetime – I’m not holding my breath on that one – I’m happy not taking life ,second by second, for granted, which includes not dropping , “I can’t wait/I’m so excited about the second coming” bombs .. Just seems to depressing. In short no one .. no organization, no Church has a clue – Maybe they all have a sand grain of insight … from the sandbox of The meaning of Life – Of Gods Plan but really what we think – What others think they know – Is no where close .. Or just maybe they..we are exactly right (which is never fun – and kind of mocking in a way) My definition of Second Coming is beautiful – Nothing else matters location, time w/e And I’m not going to pretend to know more or wish it upon myself in my life – DH always mentions that this life is “Nothing”(Or other choice stupid words) in commparison to eternity .. Eternity started yesterday it is today – It was happening when you said it meant “Nothing”. Off topic lol …

[Anonymous]

“Israel is celebrating their 59th anniversary of statehood. After thousands of years of the Jewish nation being disbursed throughout the world, this tiny country was able to restore their people, culture, and Hebrew language in less than a decade. I visited Israel during their 50th

anniversary in 1998. The city of Jerusalem was full of festivities and fireworks and the sun reflected off the limestone buildings making them look like gold.”

The preceding was copy and pasted from:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247390/israels_independence_day_on_may_14.html?cat=9

Yes, there was and is a literal gathering of Israel, both in the Holy Land and here in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

LaLaLove said:

Quote:

Literally thinking the saints, from ALL around the world nonetheless, would all need to go to one crummy state in the US .. Is silly.

Don’t take this in a demeaning way, but I assume that you may be quite a bit younger than myself. The gathering of Israel is an important part of the foundation of your religion, the Book of Mormon, Moses’s appearance, Elijah, missionary work, temple work… and, yes, locations were (and I assume still are) part of the paradigm of many prophecies from Isaiah, Daniel, Nephi, Joseph Smith, etc., and up to Spencer W. Kimball.

Re-read your Patriarchal blessing. Why are you told which tribe that you descend from?

Jewish friends used to joke that Mormons were the only religion that similarly saw other people as “Gentiles.”

As I’ve lurked and written on this site, one thing that is important to me, as an inactive, is to see fellow Mormons know and own up to their religion. I know that I’m only a part-owner now. Maybe George can identify with this, part of the things that I no longer own seem to have been discarded, dare I say casually, by the Church.

[Author]

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