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Hi. Not sure if anyone will see this over in the “Introductions” forum, but anyway, here goes. I’ve been a doubter off and on for the last 25-30 years, and much more so the last 10-15 years. Problem is, I teach for an institution of higher education that is supported by the Church (yeah, …) and so I’m still “locked in” for a while yet. TBM wife (although she has many suppressed questions and issues), and all of my kids are still active. Lots of doubters among my siblings and parents, though, which helps me vent.
Same issues as many of you, I’m sure. Historical: (Nauvoo) polygamy, Adam-God (how can a prophet be so clueless about who God is?), Law of Adoption, temple/freemasonry, blacks and the priesthood, well-meaning but often clueless GA’s, etc etc. But there are just as many “metaphysical” issues — I’m troubled by a Mormon universe where gods are tied to time and space eternally (and running a 24 hour prayer line — definitely not something I’d want for my future); serious problems with exclusivism and denigration of other belief systems; the fact that I’m naturally drawn to more Eastern religions, etc. And then there are the social issues: basically, I just force myself to endure church — week after week after week. But there is no escape, as long as I have my current job. I don’t have anyone — at all — that I feel close to in my ward, so three hours every Sunday are a real bummer. And I live in constant dread — seriously — that I will again be called to a leadership position where I will have to be even more hypocritical about my beliefs. One false step, and I’ll lose my job — a job that (all things considered) I really love.
One the bright side, I do feel like (on my good days) I’m aiming for Fowler’s Stage 5. I do recognize the good that the church does in terms of strong families, an increasing attention to humanitarian issues, and so on. And — in spite of all of my questions and doubts and disbelief — I am still a believer in the Book of Mormon — at least at the same level as I revere other sacred texts like the Upanishads, the Tao Te Ching, parts of the Bible and the Quran, etc. And I still believe in God — whoever/whatever He/She/It is. I guess I have a mystical streak in me, and I feel drawn towards God through the arts and especially nature. I guess I’m a mystical pantheist at heart.
Bottom line is — I think the Church is *a* path back to God, but it’s very unlikely that it is *the* path (nor do I really want it to be). But it’s worked well for my family, so I’m glad for that. I just wish that it worked better for me.
Anyway, I’ve been a member of NOM for about 12 years (!!) off and on, but I only post very infrequently over there. Overall, I like NOM and I appreciate many of the participants there. But there are also lots of people at NOM who have completely left the church and probably would be happier at RfM, and it’s hard at times to deal with their toxic comments.
I’ve followed StayLDS off and on over the past few years, and although the traffic here seems a bit slow, you all seem like a really nice group of people. I’m usually more of a lurker than a poster on these forums (mainly a time issue), but I hope to participate as occasion permits.
Finally, because of the way that things work at my current university (“that which must not be named”, to prevent Google links to my profile), it’s almost impossible for doubters there to contact each other. On the off chance that there are any others from my university here, please feel free to PM me. Of course, we’ll have to just keep things at an anonymous level, to protect our jobs.
Good to be here. Thanks for the good work that all of you are doing to meet the needs of like-minded members of the church.
Heterodox wrote:Bottom line is — I think the Church is *a* path back to God, but very unlikely that it is *the* path (nor do I really want it to be). But it’s worked well for my family, so I’m glad for that. I just wish that it worked better for me.
Welcome Heterodox,
I recently saw Les Miserables. I had been familiar of the rough outline of the play, many of the songs, and the previous film adaptation without music. I was very impressed by elements that I had somewhat missed before. The most relevant of these to your post is how the former prostitute, violent felon, and young revolutionaries are all reunited in that big barricade in the sky singing about turning their swords into plowshares and “to love another person is to see the face of God.” Anyway it reminded me that there is much that is divine going on outside of Mormonism and that I believe God is merciful of all his children in their limitations.
Heterodox wrote:Problem is, I teach for an institution of higher education that is supported by the Church
I believe that financial dependence on the church adds extra complications on this journey and I do not envy you in the slightest. But OTOH, you seem to be adapting pretty well (though not exactly thriving).
At any rate you are more than welcome to participate here.
Welcome. I agree with you that the church is A WAY, and not THE WAY. It is my motto…the church is a divine organization, one of many, that some people can follow to find peace and the gods, in this life, and perhaps the next.
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Hi heterodox, Good to have you with us. I agree it’s a smaller community. In some ways that’s frustrating (slower topic development) but in more ways it’s good. I feel among friends here. And the mods do a great job of maintaining the positive atmosphere.
In letting go of the “the one true church” and instead seeing it as “a true church” (or a true path in directional terminology) I’ve discovered the frustration of people’s absolutism but also a way of seeing Mormonism’s relevance to me and the opportunity to be broader in my perspectives. It’s a tricky balance. Sometimes I leave the 3hour block very frustrated, but I try to find at least one positive each week.
I didn’t realise the church owned schools only employed active Mormons. Is a TR also a requirement. Doesn’t that for a slightly one-dimensional teaching core. How many of you do you think are ‘in the closet?’
Anyway, welcome to the community. Look forward to hearing your perspectives.
mackay11 wrote:I didn’t realise the church owned schools only employed active Mormons. Is a TR also a requirement.
Yeah, it’s virtually impossible to be hired at an LDS university nowadays unless you’re LDS. And if you are LDS, then your bishop has to sign off on a form every year, indicating that you’re “temple worthy” (tithing, attendance, etc). If not, you’re gone.
mackay11 wrote:Doesn’t that for a slightly one-dimensional teaching core.
Not really. I teach in a field where the Church and the gospel would only very rarely be mentioned, so it’s not much of an issue. If the Church comes up, it’s in response to someone getting a mission call, etc, and I’m totally supportive of that anyway.
mackay11 wrote:How many of you do you think are ‘in the closet?’
That’s the $64,000 question. It’s almost impossible for “non-orthodox” employees there to find out about each other, because (kind of like in Stalinist Russia or the novel “1984”, sadly enough), one slip-up in a conversation or one “oddball” comment in class, and you could be suspect. You might then be reported to the central administration, and there would be consequences. So it leads to a somewhat frustrating situation, where even if you suspect that a colleague might be “like-minded”, there’s really no way to broach the subject and find out for sure. But this really isn’t much different from most universities in the US nowadays, where political correctness is enforced with such rigidity that “non-believers” (i.e. conservatives or Christians) have to stay underground, to avoid negative consequences.But even with all of this, I still love my job — lots of other very nice things about being there.
Quote:But this really isn’t much different from most universities in the US nowadays
Yup. We think a lot of things are unique to us when, in fact, they are extremely common.
Heterodox wrote:And I live in constant dread — seriously — that I will again be called to a leadership position where I will have to be even more hypocritical about my beliefs. One false step, and I’ll lose my job — a job that (all things considered) I really love.
I am truly sorry that you’re in this dilemma. One of the most freeing things for me recently was asking my bishop if I could be released from my calling so that I could pursue my own personal faith. He was supportive, but he even tried later to provide me a different (more passive) calling he thought would be easier for me right now, and I still felt like it wasn’t time. The honesty I’ve shared with him and my wife have been liberating. They know I’m not going anywhere. As the Tolkien poem says, “Not all those who wander are lost.”
Heterodox wrote:And if you are LDS, then your bishop has to sign off on a form every year, indicating that you’re “temple worthy” (tithing, attendance, etc). If not, you’re gone.
I still hold a temple recommend. I still go to church and the temple and still often find (through my own filter) valuable insights and feelings. I don’t feel like I lie on any of my temple recommend questions, because honestly I reserve the right to interpret them however I may. I understand that you have far more at stake with your job on the line, but I really hope you can find a way to be as open as you would like to be.heterodox, i hope you continue to post here. i love your comments, and i think we can help one another.
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