My brother is being sent home from his mission…

[Anonymous]

Yea…don’t agree with you on the whole public shaming thing!! !! Realy? Are we trying to have people leave the church?Bishops don’t stand up in front of sacrament and read off a list of names and the sins people confessed to that week. Sent home missionaries didn’t dupe the ward,they were never given a true choice to decide if a mission is for them thanks to the zero tolerance the church has for Ym that do not go on a mission. They are labeled as sinners and shunned regardless if they didnt go or were sent home. After the labels these poor guys are cultural pariahs even if they repent. Public shaming…I think we have enough of that already in the church!!!

[Anonymous]

I don’t agree with the public shaming aspect of Shawn’s comment, but I do agree that missionaries shouldn’t go out with things they consider to be unresolved sins. Missions aren’t meant as a time for repentance of past sins.

I know the pressure to serve missions and go at a certain age – and I am fine with individuals making their own worthiness determinations (with obvious exceptions) – and I believe we need to make it much easier for members to confess without automatic punishment of predetermined lengths of time, regardless of apparent repentance – but I also believe many cases of missionaries being sent home are cases where the missionaries should be sent home. I’ve known of cases where I agree completely with the decision, along with cases where I haven’t agreed.

What I’m saying is that I have no idea if this situation is one where I would agree with the decision or not, since I don’t know the specifics of why the decision was made. All we can do is talk in general terms – so all I am left with is uncertainty as to whether or not this particular cases was handled properly, except for the statement that he can’t return to a mission. Everything else is conjecture and generalization.

[Anonymous]

I did say the public humiliation is mostly just a perception by the one who feels guilty. I’ve passed along a sacrament tray without partaking and that’s that. No one said anything except my wife. The young man in question here will not be presented in church for a sustaining vote in support of shaming him. If he doesn’t take the sacrament, people should not even be looking his way. Its really not that big of a deal unless the one skipping the sacrament is overly self conscious or cares too much about what others MIGHT be thinking (but probably aren’t).

[Anonymous]

Anyway, we really know very little about this situation, and what is bothering me is how some are talking like this young man is being victimized and will be publicly shamed and the church is so rotten for having a process to determine worthiness to represent the church…..

I’m not buying it. Some conjecture of my own is that it is very unlikely that a young man,speaking generally, is not aware that he needs to deal with some issues before going on a mission. The conscience and the Holy Ghost will tell him something is not right. So in most cases, the whole ward is duped when a young man goes on a mission when he shouldn’t.

[Anonymous]

Wow.

Typical church emotional abuse rhetoric… It’s always someone else’s fault…never the churches.

I’m surprised Shawn, I thought you would have been more charitable and empathetic?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

Sorry but a guy coming home from a mission is like a umarried girl getting pregnant in the ward. Sure both can repent but they will both be stigmatized and labeled for a very very very long time. Their dating options will be limited as well as what callings they will hold. They have strayed from the mormon script for life and will be punished past the point of repentance by many many wards. That is the public shamming! Even if they move it will come up constantly with all the questions about how was your mission, oh little Johnny doesn’t look like your husband (if she could even find a “good” lds guy to marry her). That is the frustrating part of these sort of things, we stress a that a sexual sin is next to murder and that all a girl has to offer is her is her virginity. Or that a mission is the only option for a guy period! Sorry but most wards fail when it comes with how they handle sins that are public knowledge, even if the person has repented.

[Anonymous]

Shawn, are we even members of the same church? What everyone has said about the church and how the members ‘typically’ treat those that do not go on missions or are sent home is correct (of course that is according to my opinion and perspective). I used to find myself judging them in the same way before I realized I had basically been indoctrinated to believe that. I kicked those thoughts pretty quickly at that point. When I was on a mission I had awful depression and was just dying to go home at some point and be done with the mission. The main reason I didn’t go home was because I thought that I would disappoint my parents to the extent that they would love me less. That is absolutely false and my parents are wonderful but that is what I had been taught to believe, that I would somehow be less of a person since I went home early. How awful is that? The culture of the church is a heartless beast sometimes.

Edit: It occurs to me that my “faith crisis” has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel, the scriptures or my faith. It has everything to do with the culture of the church. I bet there are others of us who also fall into that category.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there is much tension on this issue probably because of the personal connection. I hope I can help to defuse that since I don’t have a strong opinion.

I believe that everyone could agree that there could be situations where a missionary absolutely needs to get sent home. I don’t think anyone wants us to go the route of the Catholic Church and sweep serious priest/missionary abuses under the rug.

On the other extreme there may be things that many/most YM struggle with and that a particular MP may take an unnecessary hard-line stance on.

In the middle there may be a host of issues of differing severity where the appropriate action may not be so clear cut. Here things like age and priesthood held at the time of the “sin” and general contrition may be taken into consideration. I’m sure that the personality and perspective of the MP and the missionary (rightly or wrongly) will also play a part.

So if we can start with that premise as a starting point – perhaps the discussion can be more effective.

Dax wrote:

Sure both can repent but they will both be stigmatized and labeled for a very very very long time. Their dating options will be limited as well as what callings they will hold. They have strayed from the mormon script for life and will be punished past the point of repentance by many many wards. That is the public shamming!

I find it interesting how the culture of some other churches encourages and even celebrates recounting their past “sins.” This tends to heighten the miraculous pivot of “the mighty change of heart.” I find my own reactions to these stories as interesting. Sometimes the story will go how they were addicted to alcohol or drugs before – that is ok for me as they were under the yoke of an addiction before and with divine help they are now free. Halleluiah! But I turn instantly squeamish if the confession turns at all sexual. I remember a youth pastor doing a presentation in front of the congregation where he was beset with labels and baggage. The labels were represented with paper and tape and the baggage was actually luggage. He explained each label and bag as it had personally applied to him before being set free by the Atonement. Among the labels and baggage was “porn and masturbation.” I felt a twinge both for him and his young wife. For the whole congregation to know that her husband had ever indulged in porn and masturbation just felt… wrong! This is certainly not the culture that I grew up in.

OTOH, I recently read in the Ensign about an LDS woman that had been addicted to drugs and how her life fell apart before the atonement became real to her and she straightened out. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/03?lang=eng “No Empty Chairs” Her life now is that of a typical LDS married stay-at-home mom. She says that “When people look at me now, they don’t know that I was once a drug addict…. As a family, we barely talk about my addiction anymore because we feel that I have become a different person from who I was then.” Her name is withheld and she never once mentioned any sexual transgression (which I previously alluded is even more culturally verboden than addiction).

As missionaries we were told that if any investigators asked us if we ever {insert sin here}, that we could honestly answer that we hadn’t because if we had truly repented then it was wiped clean.

I find this to be an interesting juxtaposition. I’m still not comfortable with talking publicly about past transgressions – but I can also see how our refusal to do so can contribute to people feeling like they are the only ones to ever mess up and that once you “blow it big time” – you can never really be fully accepted in the LDS world again.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Wow.

Typical church emotional abuse rhetoric… It’s always someone else’s fault…never the churches.

I’m surprised Shawn, I thought you would have been more charitable and empathetic?

Maybe my words are being perceived in a meaner sense than I intend.

I did write “I think some public humiliation (which is mostly just perception) fits the misdeed.” All I mean there is that a person will feel a bit of shame just by being among the people after after having been dishonest (most likely) through all the interviews. I do not mean that anyone should say anything unkind to him, give him looks, or talk behind his back. That feeling of shame can turn to true humility and lead to improvement so “I don’t rejoice in anyone’s suffering, but it can do some good.”

I also pointed out that I believe “what will most likely happen is that the ward will be kind to him.” I really think that most, if not all, of any public humiliation will only exist in the mind of this young man. I do not advocate anyone being unkind about it.

There’s a guy in my ward who came home from the MTC a few months ago. I used to be his home teacher. I don’t treat him any differently because of the mission issue.

Anyway, maybe you can expound on your comment and tell me why this might be the church’s fault.

HSAB wrote:

Actually, no one gave him money to go. That’s not the way it works where I am at least.

I don’t know if it’s still a practice. It may depend on a family’s circumstances and location, etc. At least 10 members of my ward handed me a check or cash on the day of my farewell. That was about 15 years ago. I suppose this really should be part of the discussion, though. I am very sorry for any suffering your brother might go through and I really wish him well.

[Anonymous]

Dax wrote:

Sorry but a guy coming home from a mission is like a umarried girl getting pregnant in the ward. Sure both can repent but they will both be stigmatized and labeled for a very very very long time. Their dating options will be limited as well as what callings they will hold. They have strayed from the mormon script for life and will be punished past the point of repentance by many many wards.

I don’t think it’s like that everywhere. Maybe there are local issues that need to be addressed. I find my ward to be very kind and forgiving.

raygun wrote:

Shawn, are we even members of the same church? What everyone has said about the church and how the members ‘typically’ treat those that do not go on missions or are sent home is correct (of course that is according to my opinion and perspective). I used to find myself judging them in the same way before I realized I had basically been indoctrinated to believe that. I kicked those thoughts pretty quickly at that point. When I was on a mission I had awful depression and was just dying to go home at some point and be done with the mission. The main reason I didn’t go home was because I thought that I would disappoint my parents to the extent that they would love me less. That is absolutely false and my parents are wonderful but that is what I had been taught to believe, that I would somehow be less of a person since I went home early. How awful is that? The culture of the church is a heartless beast sometimes.

I do believe it’s a matter of perspective. I’ve never been a jerk about this kind of stuff (except for on this thread), maybe because four of my six married siblings were expecting a baby when they got married and most of us have/had issues with substance abuse. We are accustomed to sinning and repenting and being cool about it.

I’m trying to point out here that maybe the ward will be kind to this young man. You were worried about what your parents would think if you went home, but you discovered your perception of them was false. Maybe people are kinder than expected. Wouldn’t that be cool?

I was also depressed on my mission. I received a strange blessing in the form of breaking some bones. I went home for six weeks to recuperate and it was helpful. The mission was still very difficult at times.

[Anonymous]

Shawn wrote:

Anyway, maybe you can expound on your comment and tell me why this might be the church’s fault. ….

Thanks, but no. I’m not interested in arguing and debating at this time.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Shawn wrote:

Anyway, maybe you can expound on your comment and tell me why this might be the church’s fault. ….

Thanks, but no. I’m not interested in arguing and debating at this time.

I wasn’t looking to argue or debate. I was seeking to understand better. It’s cool, though.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarifying comments, Shawn. There still will be points of disagreement among the various people here, but: 1) we’re used to that ; 2) it’s obvious you didn’t mean much of what the first comment seemed to suggest.

Talking only with printed words on a screen, without the benefit of seeing facial expressions and getting instant clarification can really suck sometimes. That’s good to remember.

[Anonymous]

I am very late to the discussion. Just wanted to throw in, it is no one’s business why someone is back from his/her mission. I just don’t get why people want to immediately assume it is a sin issue. You notice I put him/her? With all the girls going out now, there are sure to be many of them returning home due to it just not being right for them at the time. I wonder what the wards will do with that? Maybe the girls going out will ease some of this pressure on our young men when it’s all said and done.

When our son came home early from his mission, some of my friends listed several, now grown up and participating fully in the Church, men who had also come back home early. All of whom I knew about, but had not remembered because I didn’t wonder about them at the time. It’s our job to love, to support and to build up. Shame on any of us who would treat young people any differently. This is really one of the church culture issues that aggravates me. There are other causes besides sin that bring our young men home. And no matter what the cause, it is certainly not the ward’s issue.

I would add that the list of grown up men who returned home early are now wonderful husbands, fathers and priesthood holders.I know men who completed missions who do not come close to these guys.

[Anonymous]

One of my brothers came home early from his mission – because he couldn’t say in good conscience that he “knew” what he was expected to say he knew. I admired him at the time and admire him now.

He has been divorced and remarried to a woman who was divorced. They are waiting for clearance to be sealed in the temple. In my mind, they are a poster couple for everything the pure Gospel is supposed to entail – alongside me and my wife, who are the stereotypically happily ever after, high school sweethearts couple – and every other construction of marriage that ends happily.

[Author]

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