My calling was the catalyst…

[Anonymous]

Hi. I’ve been reading a bit on these forums for a week or so and thought I’d join in a little. I’m a 30 year old, life-long member of the LDS church. My husband and I were married in the temple 11 years ago and we have 4 children.

I’ve always avoided studying church history and the D&C because I’ve never been comfortable with polygamy. I was called to teach the gospel doctrine class in December. Since I would be teaching church history and the D&C, I decided to do some studying and try to reconcile myself with some of the issues I had with the church’s past. That led to doing research and reading from many sources that are scholarly and reliable but not “approved” by the church.

The result? I no longer believe the church is what it has always claimed to be. I’m angry that things are taught so differently from the way they really happened. I feel like I’ve had my eyes opened and I’m having a very difficult time attending church and an especially difficult time teaching my class.

I’ve spoken to my husband about a few of my concerns. He’s been supportive of me and assures me that even if I chose to leave the church, he would stick with me. His family is very very very devoted to the church. His father is a patriarch and now a temple sealer. His grandparents, who he loves and respects more than his parents, devoted their lives to the church and to temple work. When I asked him “What if the church isn’t true?”, he replied that it would mean that his dad was a fraud, that his mission was pointless and he’d been lying to everyone all those years and he was quite defensive. He agrees with me that there are things about the church that aren’t quite right, but leaving would come at a high price. His parents would likely disown us, we would break my mother’s heart, and since we live in Utah, things would become a bit awkward and difficult with friends and the community. We also worry about our children being ostracized for having “apostate” parents.

So, we stay. I could go on and on about some of my worries and concerns about staying in the church as well as the cognitive dissonance that it is causing me, but I figure there will be other threads where that can be discussed.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, May.

As you probably know already from reading some of the threads here, there are lots of people here who understand completely where you are right now.

I hope reading and commenting here can help you find peace, in whatever way is right for you. We don’t have lots of eternal answers that will work for everyone, but we have things that have worked for us as individuals, listening ears and (as much as possible) open hearts. (We’re working on non-judgmental minds, but that’s a tougher animal to tame.)

I hope that will be enough.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Ray. What I really need right now is somewhere safe to be able to discuss things. From what I’ve read here, this place seems incredibly supportive and the suggestions are thoughtful and done with the right spirit. I just finished reading the thread on garments as well as the article on BCC. Just knowing that others feel the same way is an incredible comfort.

MayB

[Anonymous]

MayB wrote:

Since I would be teaching church history and the D&C, I decided to do some studying and try to reconcile myself with some of the issues I had with the church’s past. That led to doing research and reading from many sources that are scholarly and reliable but not “approved” by the church. The result? I no longer believe the church is what it has always claimed to be. I’m angry that things are taught so differently from the way they really happened. I feel like I’ve had my eyes opened and I’m having a very difficult time attending church and an especially difficult time teaching my class.

Welcome May!

Someone else here said that our church lesson’s primary purpose is not educational but indoctrination. I believe that they phrased it as “SS is more of a time to rehearse time honored precepts.” It helps me to remember that the point of the lesson is not to have a more accurate understanding of LDS history but often the point is to build loyalty to the church. This is what I think BKP meant when he said, “some things that are true are not very useful.” So if I were to look at the class as a history lesson I might go crazy that the history can be soooo bad. Stepping back and looking at it like an anthropologist might observe a foreign culture helps me. When I hear the LDS restoration narrative being rehearsed, can I understand and appreciate what is happening on a cultural and social level?

MayB wrote:

When I asked him “What if the church isn’t true?”, he replied that it would mean that his dad was a fraud, that his mission was pointless and he’d been lying to everyone all those years and he was quite defensive.

To me this is like asking “What if there is no God?” and him answering, “Then life would be a pointless fraud.” If the point of your life is to suffer/endure to a heavenly reward then I imagine that frustration. But to say that life is a pointless fraud unless it is accompanied by an afterlife seems shortsighted.

MayB wrote:

I’ve spoken to my husband about a few of my concerns. He’s been supportive of me and assures me that even if I chose to leave the church, he would stick with me.

This alone is worth its weight in gold. It is such a blessing to have such a supportive spouse. Please be extra good to him as this is likely a scary time for him.

MayB wrote:

What I really need right now is somewhere safe to be able to discuss things. From what I’ve read here, this place seems incredibly supportive and the suggestions are thoughtful and done with the right spirit. I just finished reading the thread on garments as well as the article on BCC. Just knowing that others feel the same way is an incredible comfort.

To quote BY, “This is the place!!!” So glad you found us. :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much Roy. My husband really has been wonderful! I was scared to death to even bring this up with him. I know he feels scared and so I try not to bring up too much with him. He’s sacrificed a lot during his life in order to follow the church’s teachings and his parents are very rigid about obedience to prophets and the letter of the law. I can see how the possibility that everything isn’t as it has been taught to him would be terrifying and make him feel as if he’d wasted much of his life and suffered needlessly. I’m trying to be very careful and be open with him about my feelings without pushing them onto him.

Thank you for your suggestions about teaching. I’m trying to appreciate the way the manual teachings can inspire us to be more Christlike and to focus on those aspects of the lessons rather than the events that I see as problematic.

I’m so glad I found this site as well. In looking for somewhere to discuss things, most of what I found was made up of those who had already left the church and I didn’t see much help for those of us trying to find ways to stay.

[Anonymous]

MayB, thank you for your Introduction. It really sounds familiar to many of us.

First of all, you’re not alone.

Recently in our SS class we were talking about the 1st vision. It was a former Bishop who brought up the fact that there

are a number of versions of the 1st vision. It moved the discussion in a non-traditional way. It was received in a very refreshing & open way. (I’m sure is doesn’t always work that way.) No one was offended or upset. Since then, more of the lessons have been like that.

Second, is there anything you like about the church. On my “journey back”, I’ve tried to made a list than concentrated my activity on the things I like. This includes the people I associate with. By that I mean staying away from the “doctrinal hard liners”.

Third, continue to communicate what you feel & believe with your husband. He sounds like a great guy.

Lastly, keep coming back to this forum & participate. It has helped me VERY much.

I believe that our spiritual journey is meant to be an (mind blowing) adventure not indoctrination.

Hang in!

ps. Yes, I’m back. I just couldn’t help myself.

[Anonymous]

MayB – love your moniker!

I have certainly been where you are as well. I encountered a lot of this problem when I was trying to teach RS, the Joseph Smith manual. The manual itself was problematic. There were a few lessons I just couldn’t teach as they were written because whoever wrote them didn’t seem to know what they were talking about.

Quote:

I no longer believe the church is what it has always claimed to be.

I think a great analogy for this (that others have discussed on the site) is a marriage. When you actually get into a marriage, your illusions about that other person are – over time – shattered. You begin to see that what you perceived is not accurate, and that how they perceive themselves is not accurate. Plus people change over time or experience new things that changes their personality. The church is constantly evolving. I am convinced I could not have been Mormon in the Brigham Young era, for example, and I probably would not have joined in the Joseph Smith era either. I could never have stomached the Joseph F Smith days either. And unlike a person, the church has many different personalities, not just one.

Quote:

I’m angry that things are taught so differently from the way they really happened. I feel like I’ve had my eyes opened and I’m having a very difficult time attending church and an especially difficult time teaching my class.

Me too. But I also don’t believe that the white-washing is entirely intentional. Unfortunately, superficial myth building is a time-honored tradition in curriculum in our church. The materials don’t bear even a minimal scratching away at the dust on the top layer of history. Any teacher who tries to magnify his or her calling immediately sees this, and so here we are. What I really dislike is the desire to censor teachers from being accurate. I understand the idea that the gray truth of history is not necessarily as good a morality tale to some black and white folks, but my view is that we have more to learn from an accurate and full discussion.

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When I asked him “What if the church isn’t true?”, he replied that it would mean that his dad was a fraud, that his mission was pointless and he’d been lying to everyone all those years and he was quite defensive.

Good heavens! That’s a very black and white perspective. I couldn’t disagree more! It’s similar to the ridiculous assertion that the BOM is either manna from heaven or the grossest falsehood or that JS is either sitting on the right hand of God or the biggest charlatan who ever lived. The truth is almost always in between. Personally, I believe a lot of the doctrines of the church are inspired and inspiring. And often misunderstood. The church misrepresenting itself or the facts of its history doesn’t necessarily mean it does so intentionally. Sociologically there are a lot of reasons this happens in organizations. For example, the company I work for talks a lot about how timeless its values are and the importance of what it does. But of course I know for a fact that there are plenty of examples through history where it has made mistakes or not lived up to its values or its values have changed. Does that make it a fraud? No, just fallible.

Quote:

He agrees with me that there are things about the church that aren’t quite right, but leaving would come at a high price. His parents would likely disown us, we would break my mother’s heart, and since we live in Utah, things would become a bit awkward and difficult with friends and the community. We also worry about our children being ostracized for having “apostate” parents.

Or everyone could make you a project and irritate you by trying to be super nice. Just remember that Jesus didn’t stay in Judaism to appease his family or friends. That doesn’t mean you should leave either. My own view is that the only way to have any influence is to not act from an appeasement standpoint – we have to find our own reasons for doing what we do without regard to other people’s actions or reactions. And I would love it if the church was full of people who are there for their own reasons, who don’t care what other people think of them (or at least not to let it drive their actions through fear of disapproval), and who actually know a thing or two about what they are talking about. Wouldn’t that be a great place to be? Then church can be all about supporting each other to be the best people we can be and to be our true authentic selves and really understand human nature.

Quote:

So, we stay. I could go on and on about some of my worries and concerns about staying in the church as well as the cognitive dissonance that it is causing me, but I figure there will be other threads where that can be discussed.

Can’t wait to hear more from you here.

[Anonymous]

Welcome!

[Anonymous]

MayB wrote:

Just knowing that others feel the same way is an incredible comfort.

Many days, this is enough for me. Discovering this site was a such a blessing. My vitals are stable. I’m out of the ICU. Like you, one of the big bleeders for me was polygamy and everything that stems from it.

I agree that spouses need a lot of consideration and tenderness in a time like this. In some ways, my crisis has been a boon for our marriage.

I’m glad you found this site! Welcome!

[Anonymous]

Welcome Sister MayB,

Just knowing that you are not alone is comforting. I can’t share too much with my wife at this time because she just does not want to deal with it, so having a spouse that will let you share is a great help. Remember that you can share here any time and I have found that the responses have helped me a lot. I have had concerns about the church for many years and like most I just shelved them. About a year ago it all became too much. I was and still am on the HC and fulfilling my speaking assignments was becoming a real struggle because I felt like a phony. I didn’t feel like I could be true to myself and and still give the message I was assigned to give. I really worked myself up and lost a ton of sleep over it but after many post here I have learned to come to grips with it. As Ray has said so many times, if they call me then they get me how I am and when it no longer works for them then they can release me. I have been pretty up front with the SP and he told me that he wants me to give my talks how I see fit and that he is good with that. He also said that he has heard that they have been some of the best HC talks because I don’t just quote a bunch of conference talks. What I am trying to say is make your lessons your own but be kind and gentle to those who you teach. I might talk about some sensitive issues but I do so with respect and love. There have been a lot of good post about how that might be done. Ray gives us his SS lesson just about every week and he has some very good ways of presenting different material. There are some real smart people who post here along with some regular to not so bright people like me. I hope we hear more from you.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your responses and the warm welcome! I love the suggestions regarding my SS class and looking at the church to find what I like about it. Sometimes it’s hard to find and keep the good while ignoring or rejecting the bad.

Yes, my husband is amazing! I worry though that if I share too much with him, he might start just shutting it out and stop listening, so I try to be careful. As hawkgrrl pointed out….

hawkgrrrl wrote:

When I asked him “What if the church isn’t true?”, he replied that it would mean that his dad was a fraud, that his mission was pointless and he’d been lying to everyone all those years and he was quite defensive.

Good heavens! That’s a very black and white perspective. I couldn’t disagree more! It’s similar to the ridiculous assertion that the BOM is either manna from heaven or the grossest falsehood or that JS is either sitting on the right hand of God or the biggest charlatan who ever lived. The truth is almost always in between. Personally, I believe a lot of the doctrines of the church are inspired and inspiring. And often misunderstood. The church misrepresenting itself or the facts of its history doesn’t necessarily mean it does so intentionally. Sociologically there are a lot of reasons this happens in organizations. For example, the company I work for talks a lot about how timeless its values are and the importance of what it does. But of course I know for a fact that there are plenty of examples through history where it has made mistakes or not lived up to its values or its values have changed. Does that make it a fraud? No, just fallible.

… he does have a very black and white perspective. That’s how his parents raised him. They’re very strict and black and white, especially about everything pertaining to the church. I caused quite the scandal when we were first married by drinking a diet Coke in their presence. He’s a lot more laid back than his parents and resents most of their parenting practices they pushed on him when he was younger. His mother, in particular, has done a lot of emotional damage.

Anyway, I’m happy to be here. Not sure how often I’ll be able to post and respond, but so glad to have a place to do so. Thank you.

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