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Interesting….I have a colleague. He’s a smart guy, and a non-Christian. We talk frequently about business, relationships, life, philosophy and religion. It tends to be non-religious. One day it came up about institutional egocentrism. I spoke generally about how religions start out wanting to help others, provide a belief system, but then the leaders start using their religion to further institutional interests rather than helping individuals. In fact, they may insist on things, in the name of religion, that actually hurt their membership. Well, he shared that he felt that way about his own religious community. And of course, I indicated I felt the same way about my own in some ways, although I indicated I didn’t want to “throw out the baby with the bathwater”.
It was an interesting conversation — I realized that other religions have people who are somewhat “unorthodox” like I am, for similar reasons.
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It was an interesting conversation — I realized that other religions have people who are somewhat “unorthodox” like I am, for similar reasons.The more I interact with religious people, I find the flip side to be true. So many stay because of beliefs that could be shattered by logic/reason yet it holds them steady in their lives. The only problem is they can’t imagine the other believers in other religions truly having the same conviction.
That reminded me a little bit of a conversation I had with a Hindu friend. Hinduism has a lot of beliefs we would consider fantastical about how the world came to be, etc. Christianity has a story about a talking snake and a flaming sword and fruit that makes you wise, also fantastical, but often considered metaphorical rather than realistic. I noted this to my friend and said “But Hindus don’t actually take those stories literally, right? Like Ganesh having the head of an elephant and Hanuman being a mischievous monkey-god–those are just stories to illustrate a point, right?” He said for himself and people of his generation (our generation), mostly they don’t take those things literally, but that his parents absolutely do take them literally. They are terrified of monkeys as a result of the Hanuman stories. (In fairness, monkeys are terrible people. Americans tend to think they are cute, but they are very violent and thuggish in the wild). There was another belief we encountered in Buddhism while in Singapore that they would burn paper items to send them to the realm of the dead so their loved ones would have those things in the afterlife. They burned paper cell phones and paper money and paper cars and cans of soda. Again, that’s a very literal belief that those things will materialize for their use in the ghost world. But is that really so different from lighting a candle for the dead or doing baptisms for the dead or praying for the dead? Maybe it’s more literal, but it’s not substantially different in terms of reverencing ancestors.
hawkgrrrl wrote:(In fairness, monkeys are terrible people. Americans tend to think they are cute, but they are very violent and thuggish in the wild).
Americans can be very violent and thuggish in the wild, so it stands to reason.
nibbler wrote:
hawkgrrrl wrote:(In fairness, monkeys are terrible people. Americans tend to think they are cute, but they are very violent and thuggish in the wild).
Americans can be very violent and thuggish in the wild, so it stands to reason.
Nibbler beat me to the exact statement I was going to make. But they don’t throw their excrement at others (well not physically, but emotionally maybe).
But I am saying this as a Silver-back Gorilla – the epitome of primates.
I would like to point out there is absolutely nothing with primates, especially the relict hominid populations of the Pacific Northwest and the Himalayas. mom3 wrote:
The more I interact with religious people, I find the flip side to be true. So many stay because of beliefs that could be shattered by logic/reason yet it holds them steady in their lives. The only problem is they can’t imagine the other believers in other religions truly having the same conviction.
Realizing this was the biggest turning point for me. One example that distinctly stood out to me was AJ Miller. Have any of you heard of him? He’s this guy living in Australia with his wife, Mary. He claims to be Jesus Christ, reincarnated, and that his wife is the reincarnation of Mary Magdalene as well. He’s developed quite the following; he teaches siminars on his gospel, and is all-in-all very open about their religious beliefs, as well as their finances (10x more than the LDS church). I do not believe he is Jesus. But as far as I can tell, he’s not trying to con anyone. He strongly believes it all.
I think Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, all the way through President Monson fully fit into the same camp. THEY belive it. For them, it’s as true as the sun shining. And because they believe it so strongly, anything that contradicts that notion is inspired by Satan. Of course, the preachers in Joseph Smith’s day said the same thing about him. For myself, I’ve decided I cannot trust what I once believe to be the “Spirit”. It leads so many others in contradictory directions, and I have learned through hard experience that it can lead me astray as well. Rather, I feel the need to assess the situation based on the information I have, fully realizing I may be wrong, and be willing to adjust when better information presents itself.
dande48 wrote:
I do not believe he is Jesus. But as far as I can tell, he’s not trying to con anyone. He strongly believes it all. I think Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, all the way through President Monson fully fit into the same camp. THEY belive it. For them, it’s as true as the sun shining. And because they believe it so strongly, anything that contradicts that notion is inspired by Satan. Of course, the preachers in Joseph Smith’s day said the same thing about him.
The following link is to a thread about a Documentary where a graduate student posed as a Guru and created a following.
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4123&hilit=guru It was thought provoking.
In the end, people are people – with much in common despite differences. It isn’t easy to forget that, especially when people are wired to want to be special and unique.
Roy wrote:
The following link is to a thread about a Documentary where a graduate student posed as a Guru and created a following.http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4123&hilit=guru It was thought provoking.
Thank you so much for sharing this, Roy. I just watched the documentary, and it really opened my eyes, and helped me to be more sympathetic towards all religions beliefs. Excellent documentary.
dande48 wrote:
Roy wrote:
The following link is to a thread about a Documentary where a graduate student posed as a Guru and created a following.http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4123&hilit=guru It was thought provoking.
Thank you so much for sharing this, Roy. I just watched the documentary, and it really opened my eyes, and helped me to be more sympathetic towards all religions beliefs. Excellent documentary.
As I’ve said elsewhere I think truth can come from the strangest of places.
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