My family situations and stories

[Anonymous]

I wanted to share a recent family discussion that is a bit too detailed to be on a public forum. I think my wife understands my difficulty with some of the (I’ll call extreme) storys of “spiritual” experiences that my family can tell. Thankfully she doesn’t scorn my difficulty, I don’t think she has ever experienced similar things in her family. The stories can be literally unreal, I mean we’re talking bulletproof garments here.

So my uncle said to me “you understand a fair bit about auto mechanics …can a car run without a distributor (cap)?” I said “absolutely not.”

Then he told a story of a pair of missionaries being hassled in a gang ridden area of some city. They got in their car and drove away – and as the story goes all stunned looks in the rearview mirror. After a few blocks the car stopped and would not restart. Inspection revealed the ‘distributor’ was missing.

I immediately almost reflexively said “it would make a lot more sense that the alternator was missing, the car would run on the battery for a little while until it used up the charge, and then die.” . . . 😯 . . :eh: . . . . :wtf:

After a moment of stunned silence someone changed the subject and the discussion went on.

Sometimes I just don’t know how to NOT be me I guess… 🙄

[Anonymous]

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I can see the faces now.

[Anonymous]

That’s funny (in a comedy movie awkward moment sort of way). 😆

[Anonymous]

I changed the name of this thread to use it as a general sounding board. I just realized with some recent references to “the Miracle of Forgiveness” that I hadn’t fully processed something that had happened when my crisis was fresh. My father suggested I read that book. I was puzzled because there was no sin in the equation, I was intellectually stumped. I took it in a bad way but didn’t say anything in response. At the time I just thought to myself “you really do have absolutely no clue.” I have never read the book, but have heard it can be quite harsh in some areas. I don’t believe at the time it would have been productive to me.

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I keep meaning to read it, but more so that I can say that I read it. I always avoided it when I was more traditionally-minded, sensing that it wasn’t going to be uplifting or productive. I remember for a long time hearing it was pretty harsh and out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Edward Kimball said on a Mormon STories podcast that Pres Kimball felt the book was stronger than he intended, so take that for what it’s worth. I haven’t read it either, but I will say that “Lengthen Your Stride” has been a fantastic book that I will continue to blog about.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I’m curious enough to read it if I ever get a little time. I was just curious if anyone could think of a reason outside the regular “if you don’t have a testimony it must be from sin so even if you don’t recognize what it is there is something you need to root out and repent of so you can feel the spirit again and regain your testimony” line of thought.

…and now that I typed that out I may be done with this whole thing. I have heard “it’s of the devil” enough times in my life to realize the thought process is extremely black and white. It’s not of God so it’s of the devil. Testimony issues could not possibly be of God so the solution is simple – loosen the grip of satan. The Miracle of Forgiveness is simply the best tool known to assist in that purpose. Case closed.

Thanks for being a sounding board.

[Anonymous]

The Miracle of Forgiveness works for those who are deeply into / addicted to a sin and can’t see it on their own. It functions well as a sharp slap across the face – and was written from the vantage point of someone watching sexual promiscuity being glorified in a counter-culture movement that was seen as sweeping the nation.

It doesn’t work at all for “normal sinners” who do bad things once in a while. It can be highly damaging to them.

That’s why I believe Pres. Kimball regretted writing it – not so much regret for the message but regret for how it was being used by average members and leaders to cause unnecessary guilt trips.

My advice:

Don’t read it. It wasn’t intended for you.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ray.

On to my next subject. I didn’t want to introduce and invite possible negative comments publicly — this whole Chick-fil-A thing has many of my FB friends posting about their eating there. My first reaction is a “look at all the bigots eating chicken” …but then I immediately feel bad for judging them.

My question is: can you think of or have you experienced any productive ways of discussing this topic with traditional/absolute minded members?

My wife made an interesting comment the other day. I have never come out and stated all my thoughts on this subject with anyone I know, but I do drop small comments about loving and not judging etc… So she turned the other night to me and said “I don’t really care what the gay’s do, if they want to be married or whatever — I just don’t want to open any doors that would allow them to demand to be married in our temples.” I only pointed out that they would have to be TR holders before they could request a temple sealing – and nothing will ever change that. She said “oh, I guess that’s true.”

Any recent thoughts from these news items?

[Anonymous]

I’ve been trying to stay out of that hot, greasy chicken mess. 😆

I’m not sure there’s a perfect border line of what to say to more traditional-minded LDS folk or not. It’s really a case-by-case basis, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Regarding the Miracle of Forgiveness topic: My experience is it has some nice parts. But the timing it was written, there was a percieved need to talk boldly about “don’t just sin in your youth and plan to clean it up later” – the message then turned to how you can clean up your act, but you’re never the same for it, you are better off never sinning to begin with…it was I think the reaction to many going on their missions or other attitudes of the day. Today is seems harsh and too bold, because it doesn’t seem to fit right. My daughter was given assignments to read it after confessing sins to a bishop at BYU-Idaho. I had to warn her and prepare her for it, telling her the fears I had about how she could start thinking she would never be good enough, ever…she did tell me it made her think the prophet was saying she could be forgiven, but she’d never be Celestial worthy again. She was glad she came to talk to me about it, and I gave her the “Believing Christ” book which was much better received and she was glad she had that to calm her fears.

Regarding Chick-Fil-A…we have members of our ward that are so conservative and certain in their views, they just cannot even discuss this topic. I don’t know how to talk to people like that. It is like talking to a passionate Democrat about Rush Limbaugh…there is just no reasonable ground to stand on.

I don’t find I can talk about it. I just pass, and move on. It is all opinions and they can have theirs.

[Anonymous]

😆 I often wish we had “like” buttons for comments! (to Brian)

I sometimes will comment to someone on a tangent – say things such as homesexual activity can be seen AS sinful as pre-marital heterosexual activity, but I have a hard time getting much recognition on the fact that we do a TERRIBLE job helping our SSA (as most members prefer to refer to them) bros & sis feel any real love and acceptance – even when they don’t act on their attraction. Most members as far as I can tell have a real problem grasping/internalizing the fact that you can’t choose your attraction. They will continue to make SSA members feel broken as long as they see them AS broken.

It’s a real problem, and the only suggestion I have is to talk more about the attraction as a separate issue from gay marriage and acting on that attraction etc.

My problem is I don’t want to come out and say something that will then label me as “off the track” and then strip all of my credibility in their eyes. I keep looking for the “better way” to initiate a meaningful conversation.

[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

My problem is I don’t want to come out and say something that will then label me as “off the track” and then strip all of my credibility in their eyes. I keep looking for the “better way” to initiate a meaningful conversation.

I think they do have a problem being open-minded about it, because they just can’t understand. It is similar to trying to talk to people about pornography. I have tried to tell people I don’t like it or approve of it, but we don’t need to over-react to it…and the comments back to me are that it sounds like I’m trying to justify it, so the insinuation is I must have a problem with it, or why would I try to defend it.

It is hard to not sound like you’re defending it, only that you mentally think through it and have opinions about it.

So that is one thing, it does make people more suspicious of your motives for not taking a completely prudish approach.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you really have to watch your wording when you present different ideas. I would feel comfortable saying modest dress is important but we must recognize things can go too far. I think the example of countries where women cover their faces can make a good point – because the expected norm is to have women out of view men can think women are trying to be provocative when they simply show their face. That same effect can apply to LDS youth/men if they are convinced that there is an absolute of modest dress that includes covering shoulders and knees. I have seen situations where a girl was assumed to be purposefully dressing for attention when that was the last thing on her mind.

In some cases I think “desensitizing” can be a very good thing. That is why I’m kind of glad my wife watches Dancing with the Stars and other shows that have “skimpy” costumes and no issues about it are raised with our kids. They know they or really anyone in regular life won’t dress that way, but I don’t want them shocked by the society that they have to live in.

[Anonymous]

Hawkgrrrl would always make a great comment, that if these old men are getting a rise out of a 16 yr old showing shoulder…those men should work on their own perverted selves…not make the girls feel responsible.

…but to your point…the skill is in how to react to people, how to word your responses, and how to make mature points without emotionally getting into a heated argument.

It is a skill. I don’t do it very well with some people who are over-the-top in their emotinally-charged puritan views, so many times I just am safer to keep quiet.

[Author]

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