My God Problem

[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

baldzach wrote:

I find that trying to put Him into my box of reasoning is very arrogant of me, somehow implying that I know how He should be treating me better than He does. …we will look back and it will make sense. We will see why we had to travel portions of the past alone without His help or His tangible presence. We will see how we were able to grow and stretch and change in those times, and how it actually worked for our good.

I do agree with that.

……

I feel a need however to clarify the personal experience that I referred to: When the topic IS faith, and the question is “do You exist?” at a critical moment in your life when a wise and loving God would surely know that a specific circumstance, event, sign, response or answer, however you want to word it — would result in the destruction of the prior view or hope of God; it then becomes virtually impossible to hold up the weight of that collapsing view by the force of your individual will alone. At some point, somewhere, you either find a trace of the evidence that you need …or you are left completely in the dark. I realize many members cannot even grasp the idea of complete darkness, because it is foreign to their experience.

…..

I will endlessly strive for the point that “God is in the reality” but I simply can’t go back to seeing God as the most loving being imaginable that is also capable of selective intervention; rewarding at times the undeserving while denying the pure and needy. That concept of God does not merit worship. My experience leaves me with the view that God cannot personally reach us with his own hand while we are on earth – much the way a parent cannot aid a child that is away, but we can sometimes “feel” the connection even though we are on our own. I believe in revelation and inspiration, as imperfect as our human translation may be.

Your latter paragraph above is what I meant by “trying to put Him into my box of reasoning is very arrogant of me, somehow implying that I know how He should be treating me better than He does.” At least, that’s how I have felt when making those same types of arguments. The “A just, all-knowing God wouldn’t ever (do, allow, permit, cause to happen, etc…)” argument is, to me, saying that I know better than the “just, all-knowing God” and I know what he should do or not do, etc. better than he does. I also hold the belief that he knows me and my circumstances even better than I do, and sees things ahead and behind and within me that I don’t see.

Anyway, that’s how I get through the day. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

baldzach wrote:

Your latter paragraph above is what I meant by “trying to put Him into my box of reasoning is very arrogant of me, somehow implying that I know how He should be treating me better than He does.” At least, that’s how I have felt when making those same types of arguments. The “A just, all-knowing God wouldn’t ever (do, allow, permit, cause to happen, etc…)” argument is, to me, saying that I know better than the “just, all-knowing God” and I know what he should do or not do, etc. better than he does. I also hold the belief that he knows me and my circumstances even better than I do, and sees things ahead and behind and within me that I don’t see.

Anyway, that’s how I get through the day. YMMV.

I appreciate your view, and how it works for you. I agree that I nor any other mortal can achieve a perfect understanding of how things are or how they should be. I also see a possibility that what we think we understand will ultimately turn out to look much different. That being said I will try to give a little more context to the understanding/experience that I am trying to share. Yes we are all arrogant, that is part of the human condition. We believe what we each believe because we feel they are the correct things to believe. We all think our personal ideas have more value than others’ or else we would adopt their ideas. I don’t feel I am trying to limit what God can or can’t do, I am allowing Him to reveal to me – and am trying to accept His truths – in the way He sees fit. I’m not saying “an all loving God wouldn’t do…” because I have this box I want to put God into. I say that because I feel God has revealed Himself to me with those characteristics — that he has “rebuked” me for expecting too much of Him. The only thing I am trying to limit is the influence mortal and imperfect ideas/understanding. When you’re not sure about the details of any story where do you go? …to the source if you can. I am trying to listen to the source and let go of my ideas that were shaped through listening to men.

I realize the story I have given in bits and pieces is hard to follow because I jumped back to relay the emotion of the early experience, but now I am speaking from years of reflection and further context. Today I see the cause of the collapse and have rebuilt the faith that I am capable of genuinely having.

The real danger in listening to men over the spirit (this includes listening to me over your own experience with the spirit) is setting up for ourselves false expectations. It is the realization that our expectations are not compatible with reality that causes the crushing disillusionment. Sure, this is bound to happen to everyone in some measure in some area of life, but if we’re aware of the cause we can do more to limit the harm.

I don’t know if this makes sense but it is what I have for now. This is where the rubber of the 11th article of faith meets the road.

[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

I don’t know if this makes sense but it is what I have for now. This is where the rubber of the 11th article of faith meets the road.

Amen to that. I wish we as a church culture really did abide by that AofF. Peace, brother.

[Anonymous]

In regard to the 11th AofF, I guess I started this thread because I’m at the point where I’m not there is ANY god at all to worship. OTOH, and I know this will sound completely backwards, my logic tells me there must be a God of some sort. In studying astronomy/astrophysics, I don’t see how there can not be a creator. I suppose I’m heading toward Deism because that seems to be the closest ideology that makes sense right now, but even that isn’t fulfilling. I so long for the time when my belief in God brought deep fulfillment. I’m trying to find that again, not by going back (that can’t ever happen,) but by moving upward.

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