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With Fair’s recent erasure of me from their history I felt it was time to speak out about what apologists. I think we cover a lot of ground and think the information stands on its own http://mormonstories.org/bill-reel-discusses-his-falling-out-with-fair-and-his-faithful-dissent-with-lds-policy/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormonstories.org/bill-reel-discusses-his-falling-out-with-fair-and-his-faithful-dissent-with-lds-policy/ I welcome feedback and am happy to discuss any of this
Can’t wait to listen!!! I will come back here after I finish. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can say I enjoyed it, but it was also painful to hear the attacks that Bill has put up with – and worried about Bill with his leaders maybe not so OK with Bill being so vocal as of late. I admire anyone that can discuss his position on this topic without getting emotional or angry. And, you did a great job. I don’t envy your position. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet.
I like your conclusion about
Quote:being open to further light & knowledge
That is where I’m currently at. I don’t expect it to come anytime soon.The example of the member in your ward who said that he was glad for the church leadership that tells him what to think is classic.
I see similar examples in my ward.
My only question is: how has your family reacted to your position?
I wish you the very best. Keep us informed.
Yeah, keep us informed, Bill. I do wish the best. Minyan Man wrote:I admire anyone that can discuss his position on this topic without getting emotional or angry.
And, you did a great job. I don’t envy your position. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet.
I like your conclusion about
Quote:being open to further light & knowledge
That is where I’m currently at. I don’t expect it to come anytime soon.The example of the member in your ward who said that he was glad for the church leadership that tells him what to think is classic.
I see similar examples in my ward.
My only question is: how has your family reacted to your position?
I wish you the very best. Keep us informed.
As a convert I don’t have to worry about my own parents they don’t care one way or the other and probably if they had to care they would be happier if I was out. My in-laws on the other hand are not happy with the situation and are not saying a whole lot to me but what little they are saying implies that I have been deceived and am on a slippery slope to apostasy. As far as my wife and kids, I think all of them were TBM until this policy change and now our whole family seems to realize that this is contrary to the gospel .
Interesting. My 2 younger kids (even one on a mission) think this policy is a mistake. I have not been able to talk with some of my older kids out of the house. I don’t think it has been a big deal to my wife and I have not shared just how upset I am over this. Sorry about your in-laws, but glad your family isn’t turning against you on this item.
DB – That was informative and disheartening. But it’s been a bad month. (I’ve edited some here…)
I couldn’t listen closely all the way through. FAIR edited you out months before your Wheat and Tares post? Do you think there’s any down side in people having the impression that this happened in reaction to that post? Or maybe in other locations online you’re clearing that up. (I get that this very podcast is doing that, too.) It was good to hear the whole chain of events.
The thing I found most interesting was your interaction with Brian Hales. The whole deceived-by-angels discussion wasn’t applicable to me, because I have no concerns about saying that 132 is something other than God’s will, but I think I understand your intent. Did you say that he had asked (you?) for your stake president’s name? That’s public information, I think, so I’m not clear on that. That was awhile ago, I assume, and I hope he thought the better of it.
Re. the SSM policy, Grant Hardy’s piece, like you said, was less pointed than yours. If you were to write it again, would you change anything?
Also, can the church really discipline everyone speaking out on this? If they pursue you, they have to address people like Ken Jennings and hundreds of regular members on Facebook.
Why not just let people have and express their thoughts?But I’ve read more than one account of bishops and stake presidents saying that criticism of the policy will be grounds for discipline, and that is chilling. I hope things smooth out for you.
Wow Bill. I am very sorry for the rough ride you have been on. I think back to that article about the faith journeys and how in the last and arguably most spiritual phase the very community that you endeavor to serve might be uncomfortable with you or even become hostile. I wanted to comment on a few things covered in the podcast.
1) I had thought that Brian Hales was a dedicated historian similar to Richard Bushman. I was kinda excited, imagining him as focusing on polygamy like Todd Compton did but with a more “leading with faith” and “believing” perspective of Bro. Bushman. I now believe that his chief goal is not to explore the reasons and rationale of Polygamy in its historical and cultural context but rather to look for ways in which the historical practice of Polygamy can be squared with current church perspectives and sensibilities. I guess I could just summarize to say that in my impression he is trying to defend the issue rather than understand the issue… a true apologist in the defender sense of the word.
I suppose that I am just saddened that this type of apologist scholarship is needed and appropriate in the modern church. It just seems so lawyerly and adversarial – to subjectively build a case for a plausible defensive storyline from the evidence that might support your defense rather than taking a more broad perspective. I have recently been reading a little about Hugh Nibley. As much as I am sure Bro. Nibley was a smart man I hope the church is moving on from his sort of apologetic scholarship.
2) I similarly would be more willing to accept a more legalistic explanation for the policy or even if the real reason is to draw a line in the sand and say that gay marrieds and their sympathizers are not welcome here. I just need something that makes sense. The idea of protecting the excluded kids from confusion just doesn’t connect the dots for me.
3) I really loved the comparison between the choices faced by LGBT in the LDS church and the rock and a hard place scenario Adam and Eve found themselves in. It truly is not good for man to be alone, therefore God created a Helpmeet (a helpful companion or partner, particularly a spouse) for him. Eve could either obey the injunction to stay away from the tree or “be fruitful” but not both. Adam could either choose to stay in the garden alone and therefore frustrate the purposes that God had for him, or transgress and choose to live with his spouse (whom he had been “joined to” and become “one flesh” with) in exile.
In perhaps a similar fashion an LGBT Mormon might need to choose between a life of lonely solitude in the church or a life with their chosen “helpmeet” in exile.
I appreciate the work you do in your podcasts. I have found it helpful in my desire to remain in the church and make it work for me. Ultimately I hope that there is enough room for diversity in the church to accommodate voices like ours into the celestial choir.
Bill….I also appreciated the concept of being alone and faithful on one side, or in exile and with a helpmeet on the other. It is not a win-win choice. In fact, there is very little of a choice it seems because you can pay either way. Bill Reel, I appreciate you most for your integrity: being honest to your feelings and convictions. It is a very sad day when people have to swallow their feelings and beliefs in order to stay TBM–or give the impression of being TBM just to fit in. If you end up being ousted, you will be fine. The love you have inside goes with you, and that is what makes you a wonderful personal already. In or out, you will be Brother Bill, and you will be loved.
Bill, Thank you for having the courage to stand up for what you believe in. You truly exemplify the way to “do what is right and let the consequence follow.” I enjoy your podcasts very much and the way that you are not afraid to point out the “messiness” of our faith, but also lead with faith.
I truly hope that you don’t suffer the same fate as others who have publicly dissented against the brethren. Your status in the church will have no influence whatsoever about how much I agree with you and admire your integrity to publicly stand up for what is right. God bless you, brother!
Thank you for doing the podcasts. Finding podcasts is a slow journey. You really crystalized and put in the right some of what I have been thinking reguarding the Handbook issues. I listened to the handshake and sword podcast. I love it. I really enjoy hearing about scripture stories and exploring mysteries. Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
Thanks everyone!!!!
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