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Been reading messages here for about a month and I heard about this site while listening to one of the Mormon Matters podcasts. I am a 57 year old born into the church and was active until about age 15. At that time I left the house to go live with my father which turned out to be a poor decision for reasons I won’t go into except to say that when I graduated high school I was working a factory graveyard shift and lived in a motel in Carson, CA. I have always been very ambitious and capable but was misguided and made many poor choices when I was young.
I always felt a connection to the church, I guess it was because I developed a testimony as a young boy. I tried to stay in touch but never really attended regularly until I turned 36. At that time I found a singles ward and after two years I married my wife who I met there and we now have one son who is 18 and preparing for his mission.
I don’t like the time commitment required to be Mormon. “We are a church of appointments not volunteers…” doesn’t work for me because it sets my priorities for me. It causes me to skip (code word – sacrifice) the things in life that I think are important. I didn’t become an elder until I was in my 50’s for this reason. At that time I started making great strides and progress and wanted to make it work. Then something happened less than a year ago that caused me a lot of anguish and now I am at a point where I think I would be happier away from the church and away from my home. This is a heavy weight for me emotionally and I am also inflicted with intense depression that affects every part of my life.
That’s basically my introduction and I will look for advice in another panel, probably “Support”.
I should add the first post I read here was by DBMormon and it gave me hope that I could somehow get thru this and be stronger for it.
Welcome to the group Kipper. From your Intro, I would say that you will fit right in. The first thing I would suggest, if you think you maybe depressed, have it checked out by a professional that you trust.
Many of the other issues may diminish. You said:
Quote:I don’t like the time commitment required to be Mormon.
I agree. The pressure comes gradually & builds. It seems that those who continue to say “yes”, continue to have more added to their lives by the church.
It’s ok to say “no” or “I need a rest” or “I need a release”.
Mike from Milton.
Agreed…I burnt the candle at both ends until I realized it was time to assert myself — without leaving. You have control over how much you give, that’s my mantra now. Kipper, thanks for your back ground and story. It sounds like you have been in the church, and out of the church, and there seems to be something that draws you to it.
The church people and the culture and the required sacrifices are all things we are asked to work through as we practice becoming more like Christ. Sometimes I think they do things (Iike split wards or never make buildings big enough for enough classrooms for everyone, etc) that it seems they know and accept the church has warts and blemishes…and saints are asked to try to make the best of it because that is part of the experience. Now, I know they don’t intentionally make things hard…but there is enough imperfection that abounds that it is going to be frustrating at church.
You might enjoy searching (use the search window at the top right) for the Introduction posts or other posts from SilentDawning. He has some great lessons learned about setting boundaries with imperfect leadership in wards. His experiences may give you ideas (or Personal Message him directly).
Otherwise, if you have questions about how to work through your situation…we are all glad you are here and are happy to discuss ideas…like Mike posted. It is often comforting to know others struggle with similar things, and yet…here we all are, still trying to Stay for various reasons.
I look forward to learning more from your posts as you jump in and share your thoughts. Again…glad to meet you. Welcome!
Mike wrote:Welcome to the group Kipper. From your Intro, I would say that you will fit right in.
The first thing I would suggest, if you think you maybe depressed, have it checked out by a professional that you trust.
Many of the other issues may diminish.
Mike from Milton.
I have already been down that road, was medicated three years and yea it helped but I never got the answer to my question why don’t we treat the problem and not cover up the symptom. Also, I never felt like I was really myself.
So here it is straight up. I have always been afraid to be assigned callings that take away my time to pursue ambitions and this time it happened in the worse possible way. First of all I am not your standard follow the pack type and I need to constantly feel like I am trying to accomplish something. That is what gives me purpose in life. I search after excitement that life offers. I love the outdoors, I need to work physically hard. I surfed from the time I was a kid until recently, I earned a black belt many years ago, I learned how to box, I still race motorcycles, I snow skied for many years, I play the piano and guitar, I work on cars, do woodwork, build web sites, camp, fish, ride mountain bikes and go to the gym regular. I know what your thinking, I’ve heard GA’s mention at least half of those things specifically in talks as being “distractions”. OK, so I can swallow that to a point because I had to learn and accept that you can’t put anything above or ahead of your desire to be like Christ. So I stopped spending time on almost all of those things so I could be where I should be on Sunday’s, during family night and especially spend time with my son while he is still at home. I don’t get the same rewards from church culture that others do, I get that but it seems like we are all supposed to be the same. It’s just not possible. But the one thing that is breaking me right now in the worst possible way, the one thing in my life that I set as a goal before I was even 5 years old was to become a pilot. You barely know enough about my childhood to understand why that didn’t happen until later. So I did learn to fly but to finish up that pursuit I need a commercial license. I started training for that in January then received two callings that made it impossible for me to continue. Last week I spent four of five evenings doing church duties. This week will be the same and it isn’t uncommon to spend more time during the week doing church duties. how do you all do it? Why? I was enrolled in a class, had an instructor lined up for flight training and a plane to use for half the cost of a rental. Should have been taking exams around November but all of that is out the door including the initial costs for class. Don’t even think of telling me I’ll have time to do it later. This is one of those opportunities that don’t get duplicated and more important I’m almost 58 and when I’m in my 60’s I need to be experienced, not learning how to fly commercially. You know that voice you supposedly hear when you ask for conformation? I heard it, subtle but very clear, “it’s time”. Was it a revelation? No, I guess it couldn’t have been. I just heard what I wanted to hear.
I’ve had a couple of evening walk and talks with one of my leaders but it wasn’t very productive. Now I am fulfilling my callings, I know I should and I want to but at the same time I have a building animosity toward the church. I am finding fault with everything. Ya know, I spend three to five hours at church on Sunday (just like everyone else) but receive about 45 min of lesson. The rest is rushing around with notebooks and iPads. I sit next to my wife in sacrament then she runs off to talk, plan and make copies. Have I gained more than I lost? Not in my mind. I just need to accept the sacrifice but how? I don’t see how.
Get your pilot’s license. if that means asking to be released, ask to be released. If you aren’t released, just stop doing it as much so you can get your pilot’s license. If they want YOU, you need to make sure they get YOU – and part of “you” right now is getting your pilot’s license. If they can’t accept that, they don’t want YOU in that calling; rather, they just want someone.
if you’ve read much here, you will know that I am on the more conservative side of the spectrum here at this site – but when I accept a calling, I am clear that if they want me, they get ME.
Old-Timer wrote:Get your pilot’s license. if that means asking to be released, ask to be released. If you aren’t released, just stop doing it as much so you can get your pilot’s license.
If they want YOU, you need to make sure they get YOU – and part of “you” right now is getting your pilot’s license. If they can’t accept that, they don’t want YOU in that calling; rather, they just want someone.
if you’ve read much here, you will know that I am on the more conservative side of the spectrum here at this site – but when I accept a calling, I am clear that if they want me, they get ME.
That’s a good perspective I should have had in January. I can carry that forward but now I need to figure out how to reset.
Quote:I need to figure out how to reset.
That, in a nutshell, is a good description of a huge part of our mission here.
I agree with Ray. But it may not be easy, because from others’ perspectives, they don’t get much out of you being a pilot, they get more out of you doing hours of service. The same could be said of a new mother who has to do less at church to take care of a child.
But those situations don’t make church service a higher priority to the individual.
I think the trick is finding a peaceful place to let go of anger and be able to say No with a smile, and then find the right time to volunteer for setting up chairs or a home teaching visit.
But you’ll regret it if you pass up on this chance to get your license.
All things must be done with wisdom and order. It’s a tricky balance.
Kipper wrote:So here it is straight up. I have always been afraid to be assigned callings that take away my time to pursue ambitions and this time it happened in the worse possible way. First of all I am not your standard follow the pack type and I need to constantly feel like I am trying to accomplish something. That is what gives me purpose in life. I search after excitement that life offers. I love the outdoors, I need to work physically hard. I surfed from the time I was a kid until recently, I earned a black belt many years ago, I learned how to box, I still race motorcycles, I snow skied for many years, I play the piano and guitar, I work on cars, do woodwork, build web sites, camp, fish, ride mountain bikes and go to the gym regular. I know what your thinking, I’ve heard GA’s mention at least half of those things specifically in talks as being “distractions”. OK, so I can swallow that to a point because I had to learn and accept that you can’t put anything above or ahead of your desire to be like Christ. So I stopped spending time on almost all of those things so I could be where I should be on Sunday’s, during family night and especially spend time with my son while he is still at home. I don’t get the same rewards from church culture that others do, I get that but it seems like we are all supposed to be the same. It’s just not possible.
But the one thing that is breaking me right now in the worst possible way, the one thing in my life that I set as a goal before I was even 5 years old was to become a pilot. You barely know enough about my childhood to understand why that didn’t happen until later. So I did learn to fly but to finish up that pursuit I need a commercial license. I started training for that in January then received two callings that made it impossible for me to continue. Last week I spent four of five evenings doing church duties. This week will be the same and it isn’t uncommon to spend more time during the week doing church duties. how do you all do it? Why? I was enrolled in a class, had an instructor lined up for flight training and a plane to use for half the cost of a rental. Should have been taking exams around November but all of that is out the door including the initial costs for class. Don’t even think of telling me I’ll have time to do it later. This is one of those opportunities that don’t get duplicated and more important I’m almost 58 and when I’m in my 60’s I need to be experienced, not learning how to fly commercially. You know that voice you supposedly hear when you ask for conformation? I heard it, subtle but very clear, “it’s time”. Was it a revelation? No, I guess it couldn’t have been. I just heard what I wanted to hear.
I’ve had a couple of evening walk and talks with one of my leaders but it wasn’t very productive. Now I am fulfilling my callings, I know I should and I want to but at the same time I have a building animosity toward the church. I am finding fault with everything. Ya know, I spend three to five hours at church on Sunday (just like everyone else) but receive about 45 min of lesson. The rest is rushing around with notebooks and iPads. I sit next to my wife in sacrament then she runs off to talk, plan and make copies. Have I gained more than I lost? Not in my mind. I just need to accept the sacrifice but how? I don’t see how.
Sounds a lot like part of my situation. Although to be honest it wasn’t just church, work, family and church all required me to have 28-30 hour days. That wasn’t going to happen so I just burned the wick at both ends for as long as I could to make up for that fact. Now at 38 I have been “broken” for about 4 years now with no sign of recovery in site. My body has completely collapsed 4 years ago and it appears nothing I can do to get it back at the past 4 years. I am working my life at 25% of my previous capacity as my new max my body will allow. I can not be 100% sure of your situation but I can say in my own hindsight don’t run yourself ragged. The pay off to others was great and I personally have no regrets there but to me personally I got almost nothing in return except for satisfaction of helping others( a huge plus). But in return I gave up collage, no lived personal life yet, and apparently a broken body which I was sure would last at least another 20 years but apparently not. I hope you find balance as I am trying to work out now. I have found that life really isn’t rewarding without a balance no matter what I was or am told. Be happy with your best no matter what others say or think. Part if being you is enjoying and perfecting your “gifts”. Don’t we teach this?! We actively teach that god expects us to use and perfect our talents but then teach not to do it if it interfers with church priorities. A paradox. Having learned my lesson the hard way, I would sudjest to you that I hope you don’t. I have done or try to do all the things you have said as well as a Promarshal for AMA,wera, NASCAR and Indy car as well as the Ferrari club. I found a deep furfillment in serving others with talents I had been given, but found my spirit dwindling when I just did everything on the “to-do list” of church and others. There has to be a balance, a time for self. One doesn’t perfect his gifts given by god by going through a check list of priorities. I feel there is furfillment in doing both gods “direct work” church callings etc. and indirect work, helping others by helping myself grew first then given what streangh god gave me to others. But before we can help others first we must grow and hone our talents. A process that takes “time”. Therefore we need that time in a balance to grow. We each have unquie gifts god gave us, no matter what they ate let us not waste them by tossing them aside and saying there is no time for them. Surely while in a balanced state god did not mean for us to forgo the talents of our minds and body he gave us in pursuit of a check list?! I think he doesn’t give us talents that we may waste them anymore no matter how good the reason seems why wasting them seems appropriate. I know much of what I know, especially in electronics because people took the time to hone thier talents god gave them and teach them to me and others. Which would have never happened if they were to busy following a check list that through thier lives out of balance. I’m grateful for w hat I was taught, which openly happens when a person takes the time to learn to hone thier god given talents. I find myself depressed when I waste my god given talents even by doing a approved church,work family checklist which leaves little or no time for them. The reason doesn’t matter. I think you might or probably feel unsatisfied or depressed when not devolving your talents despite the reason as well. I hope you find your goals and balance.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:Sounds a lot like part of my situation. Although to be honest it wasn’t just church, work, family and church all required me to have 28-30 hour days. That wasn’t going to happen so I just burned the wick at both ends for as long as I could to make up for that fact. Now at 38 I have been “broken” for about 4 years now with no sign of recovery in site. My body has completely collapsed 4 years ago and it appears nothing I can do to get it back at the past 4 years. I am working my life at 25% of my previous capacity as my new max my body will allow. I can not be 100% sure of your situation but I can say in my own hindsight don’t run yourself ragged. The pay off to others was great and I personally have no regrets there but to me personally I got almost nothing in return except for satisfaction of helping others( a huge plus). But in return I gave up collage, no lived personal life yet, and apparently a broken body which I was sure would last at least another 20 years but apparently not. I hope you find balance as I am trying to work out now. I have found that life really isn’t rewarding without a balance no matter what I was or am told. Be happy with your best no matter what others say or think. Part if being you is enjoying and perfecting your “gifts”. Don’t we teach this?! We actively teach that god expects us to use and perfect our talents but then teach not to do it if it interfers with church priorities. A paradox. Having learned my lesson the hard way, I would sudjest to you that I hope you don’t. I have done or try to do all the things you have said as well as a Promarshal for AMA,wera, NASCAR and Indy car as well as the Ferrari club. I found a deep furfillment in serving others with talents I had been given, but found my spirit dwindling when I just did everything on the “to-do list” of church and others. There has to be a balance, a time for self. One doesn’t perfect his gifts given by god by going through a check list of priorities. I feel there is furfillment in doing both gods “direct work” church callings etc. and indirect work, helping others by helping myself grew first then given what streangh god gave me to others. But before we can help others first we must grow and hone our talents. A process that takes “time”. Therefore we need that time in a balance to grow. We each have unquie gifts god gave us, no matter what they ate let us not waste them by tossing them aside and saying there is no time for them. Surely while in a balanced state god did not mean for us to forgo the talents of our minds and body he gave us in pursuit of a check list?! I think he doesn’t give us talents that we may waste them anymore no matter how good the reason seems why wasting them seems appropriate. I know much of what I know, especially in electronics because people took the time to hone thier talents god gave them and teach them to me and others. Which would have never happened if they were to busy following a check list that through thier lives out of balance. I’m grateful for w hat I was taught, which openly happens when a person takes the time to learn to hone thier god given talents. I find myself depressed when I waste my god given talents even by doing a approved church,work family checklist which leaves little or no time for them. The reason doesn’t matter. I think you might or probably feel unsatisfied or depressed when not devolving your talents despite the reason as well. I hope you find your goals and balance.
In fact I do feel very depressed when not developing my talents, chasing goals and accomplishments. I do believe I have some special gifts that have been in the attic for most of my life. They’re still there and I’m trying to make up for lost time but the more active I get in the church the more service and activity is required of me. I want so bad to be invisible. Another week coming up and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings after work are tied up with requested church obligations. Fulfilling these obligations while gratifying stagnates the rest of my life. Very depressing. How can Mormons live balanced lives?
Kipper, I think it’s okay to go to leadership and say that you are too burdened at this point. I think there needs to be a little more emphasis on balance on the local level. I do feel they want us to practice balance from the top, but at the local level, some leaders are so gung ho and are a different point in their lives, they can be guilty of forgetting that everyone has different situations and needs. I think it has become mandatory for each of us to take care of ourselves first, in order to be able to give to others. People burning out, some having emotional breakdowns, etc. are not good for us collectively. I have no trouble with saying no when things need balancing in my own life. Emotional health is just as important as physical health too. afterall wrote:Kipper, I think it’s okay to go to leadership and say that you are too burdened at this point. I think there needs to be a little more emphasis on balance on the local level. I do feel they want us to practice balance from the top, but at the local level, some leaders are so gung ho and are a different point in their lives, they can be guilty of forgetting that everyone has different situations and needs. I think it has become mandatory for each of us to take care of ourselves first, in order to be able to give to others. People burning out, some having emotional breakdowns, etc. are not good for us collectively. I have no trouble with saying no when things need balancing in my own life. Emotional health is just as important as physical health too.
Thanks for that. I don’t let myself get physically burned out anymore but the emotional part is pretty damaging because I let things get shoved aside that are important to me. My choices are made to avoid guilt but that in turn creates other emotions. Whatever I do now days is at the expense of something else. I may be seeing a little light about not only what I need to do but that it’s OK to to do it. Thanks for all the advice – even those I don’t reply to. I appreciate it.
Kipper, I reread your Intro. You seem to be a person who requires challenges, activities & action. The church doesn’t do that for most of us & we feel frustration. Somewhere we need balance. Everything can’t be about church & exclude our other needs. Reread what Ray said:
Quote:Get your pilot’s license. if that means asking to be released, ask to be released. If you aren’t released, just stop doing it as much so you can get your pilot’s license.
If they want YOU, you need to make sure they get YOU – and part of “you” right now is getting your pilot’s license. If they can’t accept that, they don’t want YOU in that calling; rather, they just want someone.
if you’ve read much here, you will know that I am on the more conservative side of the spectrum here at this site – but when I accept a calling, I am clear that if they want me, they get ME.
How are other parts of your life working:
Work?
Family?
Friends?
I agree with what you’ve said about callings in church. I can’t or won’t accept a calling unless I feel a prompting to do it.
For example: I really like Family History. I am the Family History Consultant in our ward. It is rare that anyone asks me a question about FH.
I work by myself. I have not meetings to go to. I have discovered many things about my family & myself as a result.
I do it on my own schedule & I am not accountable to anyone but myself.
In answer to one of my questions at the time, you said:
Quote:Mike wrote:
Welcome to the group Kipper. From your Intro, I would say that you will fit right in.
The first thing I would suggest, if you think you maybe depressed, have it checked out by a professional that you trust.
Many of the other issues may diminish.
Mike from Milton.
I have already been down that road, was medicated three years and yea it helped but I never got the answer to my question why don’t we treat the problem and not cover up the symptom. Also, I never felt like I was really myself.
A good therapist or doctor should treat the problem and not cover up the symptoms. FWIW.
I wish you the best in your quest to be happy & fulfilled. In the church or outside.
Minyan Man from Milton (aka Mike)
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