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I am posting my story here in an attempt to connect with people with whom I can relate. I am in the middle of a HUGE crisis of faith, and the people in my life are not in this same place. I’m feeling very alone in my struggle. I am currently listening to the podcasts of the Mormon Stories conference, and someone mentioned getting help to move from isolationism to belonging. Maybe I can belong here. I am a life long Utah Mormon. I graduated from BYU (hated it). I’m a part-time professional (my kids would have considered me a stay at home mom). I have been married for 26 years to a man I love deeply, and am a mother of two (really four now my kids are married).
Almost a year ago my huband was called to be my Bishop. I didn’t fully understand it at the time, but this began a very painful examination of my faith. I didn’t understand why I was so upset so I responded to his call by trying to follow the Prophet’s counsel of pray more, study the scriptures more, attend the temple more. I felt I must not be “spiritual” enough to be a Bishop’s wife so I just had to try harder. I’ve attended the temple more in the last year than I have in my entire life, but I’m in a worse place today than I was a year ago. At this point I am coming to realize that the answer to my crisis is NOT to try harder at the orthodox staples of Mormonism.
I have finally reached the point of not being able to ignore the parts of the LDS church that don’t work for me. I can remember as far back as 12 years old sitting in BYC and commenting on how unfair the girls were treated as compared to the boys. At this point my feminism took on the fight of why the boys got to go to Lake Powell for camp and the girls were stuck not being able to travel farther than 2 hours from SLC. This seems trivial, but it proves to me that my feminism did not start with my husband being called as Bishop, it was just reawakened when the evidence of the flaws in our partriarchal led church came full force into my home. There are so many conflicting feelings from wondering why God doesn’t want all of his children to experience all the LDS church has to offer, to wondering if it’s really what God wants or somehow we have just gotten it wrong. Needless to say I disagree with many of the things that my husband is asked to do as Bishop. By the way, If I am aspiring to Godhood, where is my Mother in Heaven?
I’m not sure why traditional mormonism worked for me for so long, but I think it’s just because for raising my family it worked. We weren’t totally by the book Mormons. We did things like go out to dinner on Sunday and skip church on vacation,but we held callings and participated socially. It was just a good structure for raising our kids, and it was my culture. I didn’t know anything different. I would often say that my husband was “spiritual in his heart, and I was religious in my actions”. I wondered (and still do) when doing church things because I was supposed to would change to doing them because I want to. This summer both of my children got married in the temple, so having a crisis of faith now has the added problem of impacting these new marriages. How can I have raised them to believe temple marriage was the end all, and now because attending the temple is painful to a feminist (or at least to me) I can’t stand to attend?
At this point it seems most of my concerns revolve around the inequality of women in the LDS Church. In addition I’m so tired of trying so hard and never feeling “right” at church. I have a friend who is atheist and she commented the other day that she thought religion was supposed to bring peace and fulfillment to your life instead of agitation like what I am experiencing. I really struggle with the concept of there being the “only true” church. Somehow being LDS all my life, I learned all the rules but missed how to feel God’s love in my life. I need to believe that I can have access to God even if I can’t do Mormonism. I just keep hearing in my mind, “You can’t feel the spirit unless you are worthy” blah, blah, blah. I have been listening to podcasts on Mormon Stories, and one of the things I love is that people have found a way to continue to be LDS on their own terms. Often they talk about strong spiritual experiences they can rely on. Somehow, despite their questions and concerns, they don’t feel like they have to throw in the towel on the whole thing. I need to meet these people and try to learn how they do it. If I can do this I think I can be true to myself without damaging my family which would be great. My husband has listened to several podcasts and I’ve told him about some others and he is beginning to understand my perspective. However, deep down his beliefs are pretty orthodox and that comes out as he is “Bishoping”. He just wants me to be able to find peace, but I don’t know if I can do it while he is still Bishop. I can’t stand to go to church and see him sitting on the stand, however, asking him to quit seems so huge and unfair. He thinks if I am inactive they will probably ask him to step-down anyway. I feel trapped.
Do you know any women whose husband’s hold leadership positions like Bishop or Stake President, and have real issues with the priesthood, the young women’s program, and the temple ceremony, just to name a few. This feels like a very unique experience. I don’t know much about other religions, but it seems only in mormonism can the game change in your marriage like it has in mine. In any other religion if you are the “leader” of a congregation you have been trained, probably with a PhD in religious studies or something. Or, like with the Catholics you have given your life to the church so marriage is not part of the equation. I’m sure my husband feels that I have changed the game on him as well. I always knew my husband had a strong testimony, I just didn’t know how much I couldn’t handle him becoming part of the “establishment”.
Thanks so much,
TSW
Interesting perspective, one with which I empathize — the lack of peace, the not feeling full belonging, not in agreement with many of the things we do in our religion, conflict between family expectations and personal desires, and most of all, the feeling of being trapped. My issues are different, but the impact is similar on my feelings. I think the advice you get here about how to be part of it while not fully buying into it all will be helpful.
I like something Brian, a moderator here said — you have to get at peace with the things that bother you about what others believe. It helps make the situation more enjoyable at Church. It doesn’t mean you agree with these things, it just means you’re at peace with the way the staunch LDS people view the world.
To gain that peace, consider looking at the cultural and patriarchal values of the Church the way you might look at the customs of people in a foreign country. You understand them, and can be at peace while they portray them, but you don’t agree with them. You are simply showing deference for that culture and allowing yourself to be immersed in it. I find myself, when my non-member family have questioned some of the LDS beliefs, describing LDS beliefs using the pronoun “THEY believe…..” because I see the cultural values as a phenomenon, rather something I currently buy into.
Yet, at the same time, I feel some community by having relationships with people at Church that speak to my passions — service for its own sake, outside of Ward programs, something that I really want to do for someone. I have common interests with a couple members in music. That is outside of Church programs; I look forward to seeing them and talking about it with them. I enjoy socializing with certain people and talking about topics we have in common, which are not necessarily Church topics. I steer clear of these topics when they come up if they broach my contrarion ideas.
At the same time, focus on the good values that have helped your kids become clean living people who value God, service and other things, and whether the Church is absolutely true or not, focus on the way these same values will help your grandchildren get to that same place some day. Not all kids make it, so the achievement you have of raising some really good kids and grandkids is valuable, and I suspect the structure of the Church has helped. Focus on that part of it….
Don’t be afraid to set boundaries. Although your husband is a Bishop, and that’s hard, I find the leadership often goes easy on the Bishop’s wife since the husband is serving heavily. I would take the break as a sliver lining to the whole situation. I’m currently on the plank from a leadership/acceptance standpoint in my Ward because I’ve refused some callings, and they are leaving me alone, and quite frankly, I’m enjoying that part of it. There are fewer expectations.
Also, I don’t share my contrarion ideas with my children. My daughter is totally bought into the whole thing, and loves being a Mormon. My wife gets upset when I “bash the Church” as she says. And I know that if I appear to waver, my son will follow an unknown path with unknown values — and he needs the structure of Church. I guess it’s a sacrifice I make for them, just as I sacrifice my time and money and other things for the good of the kids. The values you know are better than the values you don’t know — if you can mitigate the ones that bother you, like the patriarchal culture.
My outlet is here, and I post often, and it helps.
That’s my humble advice and I live all of it so far….and frankly, I’m happier than when my Church crisis started a couple years ago by adopting these approaches to my Church life. I think you can find peace too.
Welcome. I hope you get some needed relief from being able to discuss your issues here. Your situation sounds like a tough one. I can imagine that being a bishop’s wife and living in Utah, I would need to regularly go in a closet and scream. I hope your husband is understanding of your concerns and emotions, as I hope you are of his. I’m sure these things can be worked out, but it really takes two, and even when both partners are committed, it can be a slow and difficult transition. At least, that’s what I’m guessing. Having children grown and out of the home makes it easier I think … on the other hand, kids in the home is often what keeps us out of ‘trouble’ in the first place
🙂 I can’t completely relate to your story, because my life experience is somewhat different, I’m not American and I’m male. 😆 But yes, your story touched me. being the bishop’s wife sounds a hard one. The bishop’s wife in our ward is semi-royalty on the one hand, and kept hanging around on the other.Quote:I have a friend who is atheist and she commented the other day that she thought religion was supposed to bring peace and fulfillment to your life instead of agitation like what I am experiencing.
I think this is only partly right. Religion should provoke new thought and growth and that can contradict peace (as Jesus says: “I came not to bring peace but a sword.”) But it should also provide comfort when we are afflicted. The agitation you are describing, though, is really a cultural disconnect as SD puts it, and I couldn’t agree more.
I don’t really buy into religion beyond what is spiritual (spiritual = edifying to the individual, creating personal growth and enlightenment). You absolutely don’t have to sit and stew in silence, but you also don’t have to take up arms. The church needs women (and men) who gently and consistently question assumptions and the status quo. I view myself as a post-feminist; I expect personal equal treatment, and I get it. Where the organization fails to provide community-level equal treatment, I believe it lacks vision and is misaligned with eternal principles; that’s between those folks and God (probably God the Mother in fact). But people need examples of equality and truth, and I am going to live my own life as if that’s what the world is like – so far (43 years and counting) that totally works for me. If people want to judge me for that, it’s on them. They are really only judging themselves.
I think you will find here many who are like-minded on this topic. You do have to find a way to make peace with the organization about it. Unexamined male privilege rarely understands the female perspective, and your husband is going to see things from a different view than you or I would. BTW, I’ve known bishops’ wives who were borderline inactive and who were feminists and who pushed against the stupid things the organization does, and they were just fine. Just be yourself. As they say, let your freak flag fly! That’s the only way to live, IMO.
I like Hawkgrrls advice. Also, you could focus on some of the changes in the CHI that show a small awakening of consciousness about the need to elevate the role of women in the Church….the fact that Ward Council is the driving body of the Ward now, and not PEC, and that the RS President can attend Priesthood Executive Meeting. So, from an administrative standpoint at the Ward leadership level, the only remaining bastion of male domination is the Bishopric meeting. That’s a bit of progress…which then moves the status quo closer to the center, making it easier to move it again as awareness grows. And it surely didn’t come about through naked, isolated ideation on the part of our Church leaders. Instead, I wouldn’t be surprised if members kindly and thoughtfully expressed their wishes that women had a bigger role in the administration of our Wards — and eventually, the Church leaders listened. Then, theyimplemented something they felt good about.
I also like what Ray said a while ago. Although you haven’t mentioned priesthood blessings, he suggested a woman laying her hands on a person’s head and giving a prayer of faith. Don’t invoke the priesthood, just give a prayer of faith. Prayers of faith are entirely OK in the Church, and in the movie Legacy, produced by the Church, there is a scene where the key woman lays her hand on a sick OX and commands it to get up and walk — all with a prayer of faith. Naturally, I would do this in the home, and not publicly at this point. And if laying hands on the head is too strong for your home, then stand behind the person and put your hands on the person’s shoulders or just hold their hands.
While this doesn’t alter that fact that men hold the priesthood, it certainly brings women closer into the circle until the day comes that the patriarchal view of the priesthood changes.
Welcome TSW. I’m glad you can talk about these things here and get feedback. I don’t have a lot extra to offer at the moment. I like what others have said. Somehow, I missed this introduction. I also don’t have much to add at this point, but I do want to welcome you to the forum. :raises hand: I’m a Bishop’s wife!
😆 You’ve gotten really good advice so far.
Yep, girls are still getting the shaft but I think it gets better with time. YW leaders aren’t just sitting back and taking it anymore. It may take another generation or so but I think it will really get more and more equal. I don’t think this is an LDS church phenomenon this is a matter of culture. As our culture changes these things in the church will be forced to keep up.
I like to think of the gospel as true rather than a true church. I really don’t feel I’d be any happier or more content attending another church as I’ve found this one to be pretty darn good despite its flaws. And I would really not be worth a *shit* if I didn’t have some weekly reminder and help keeping me on some sort of straight path. I NEED church, my husband needs it as much as I do or even more. It’s probably helped us stayed married.
My small crisis passed and even though I still don’t know what I truly believe I’m getting content knowing I will never find anything perfect and that’s okay. I’m still working on understanding the atonement and my testimony of such, I figure I”m just a work in progress. When I read about the church controversies of past and present, I think about it some and then set it aside and worry about my right here and now.
As for your husband sitting on the stand… hmm, I don’t have a problem with that as it actually cracks me up because it’s so unreal that he’s the bishop. (He is just so not the person you’d ever think would be a bishop.) So I like to do stuff like roll my eyes at him when I don’t agree with the speaker and I will also try to make him blush with a certain “look” or something. I don’t take it seriously at all. But then that’s my husband. He’s accepted me and my apostate ways. I printed out the “Stay LDS” help manual when I found it and although he’s never read it he knows it’s there if he needs it for someone. I’ve used many of the suggestions myself. I know I would never do anything that would jeopardize his position as bishop even though we both would like it if he was just a Sunday School teacher! I would not want to bring any shame on him or the family. Being a predominantly LDS community makes this really imperative.
This is what I’ve tried to do. I’m not concerned about whether the church is true. I’m trying to use it as vehicle to help me help others which is what Jesus would want me to do.
I also think you can
slowlyintroduce your kids to your new thoughts. Who knows, they may have had the same/thoughts and feelings that you are having now but they were afraid to voice them. I know I’m doing that now with my teens, we question things together and that doesn’t make it so scary. My oldest is on a mission and I’m nervous that when he gets home he’ll be way too “religious” to fit in but I’m sure with time we’ll wear him down and back into the sinful ways of our family. Good luck! We’d love to hear how things go as you work through this.
It may sound a little strange, but I feel relieved by your story. Relieved that there are starting to be more and more and men and woman who are questioning and struggling to make sense of it all. Because then I don’t feel so alone, and it gives me hope that as we support each other and continue to attend church that our influence will start to shape the future of Mormonism. My only suggestion is that if you enjoy Mormon Stories podcast to also listen to Mormon Matters podcast.
http://mormonmatters.org/ Its a little more tailored to discuss mormon topics with a panel of active non-correlated Mormons.Thanks so much for your responses. Hopefully with time I will be able to take some of your advice and implement it into my life. Right now I’m too angry. I need to listen to the advice that “you don’t need to take up arms” because I really want to. I’m also not convinced that “gently and consistently” questioning assumptions with the church really does any good. SD mentioned that I could try to focus on some of the changes in the handbook like the ward council being the driving body of the ward now and that the “lucky” Relief Society President gets to go to PEC. I just see this as window dressing with no real change. My husband would be the first to tell you that the ward council doesn’t run the ward. Also, If you look at the ward council its made up of – Bishopbric (3 men), executive secretary (can’t be a woman), ward clerks (2-4 can’t be a woman), SS President (can’t be a woman), ward mission leader (can’t be a woman), high council rep (a man), HP leader, EQ Pres. YM Pres, and then RS Pres, YW Pres, and Primary Pres (many men would be great here if we weren’t already so male heavy). Even if the ward council did run the ward the ratio of men to women isn’t even close. What do you think of the following ideas for the structure of a ward: Bishop & Bishop’s wife (both called like with a Mission President)- I discuss below how having a female counterpart to the Bishop might be helpful to the young women in the ward. However, I wonder if the ward couldn’t be run just by a council with a rotating head council designation. I don’t like how the concept of Bishop is seen as above the rest of the ward. This may seem stupid, but even the fact that the Bishobric sits on the stand every SUnday seems to elevate them above everyone else. Why not make the announcements and then come sit with the common folk. I like to believe the Savior would be sitting in the congregation with His mother.
Ward Council – made up of equal number men and women. The council could discuss who was available to fill callings and then the leaders of the various organizations could ask people if they would serve. This could even work in replacing the leaders ( I realize now that many of the men’s callings come from the stake). The leaders could then really be responsible for those they are serving. The Primary President could interview the 8 year olds for baptism, the young men and young women could be taught that their leaders are the ones that can be inspired to help them with their concerns. This could be true for the other organizations too. If you don’t think it is a good idea for people to go to their individual leaders with the problems, maybe we should have a female and male therapist assigned to each ward who is trained to really help. Right now we are taught that the Bishop is the one who is inspired for us and we should take all our problems to him. I just don’t see the need for funneling everyone to the one who is supposed to be “The Man”. I believe that the YM & YW leaders are just as likely to be inspired about the lives of the youth. Actually, I believe that we are all more likely to be inspired for our own lives ( I am currently struggling here, but I hope that somehow I can begin to feel God’s inspiration in my life. I have never been very good at it).
Many people really believe that the Bishop has more access to God than they do. They actually come and ask to know what God wants them to do, rather than trust that they can find out from God themselves. I believe this is another downside of having one person be “it”. Another interesting note is that under the current system the YM feel comfortable coming to talk to the Bishop if they have concerns, but the YW don’t. I think it is just too awkward for them to bring problems to a man. My husband has tried to get to know them better by attending lessons and activities, but had no luck. He maintains a texting relationship with the Young Men, but feels like its not really appropriate to do that with the Young Women. He is also more tapped into the YM (because the church tells him to be and…) because he is trying to make sure they advance to the Melchezidek Priesthood and get their mission papers in. There are no similar milestones for the YW when they leave High School. If the Bishop’s wife were actually called as a female version of Bishop, or the culture was to go to your Young Women leaders, I think it would be much better for the young girls.
The rest of this isn’t really about ward structue, but still things i wonder about. We are all taught to pay our tithing, do we really need to sit in front of a man every year to say that we did? We all know what is required to be temple worthy do we really need to promise 2 different men that we are doing those things? People who aren’t worthy, but want to go to the temple for an event or to save face just lie anyway. I know we would have to find a way to keep out those who want to do harm, but we could figure it out. We all know we should be compassionate and help the less fortunate. Do we really need to give our offerings to a man to decide how to help people? I just wonder if this shouldn’t be between each of us and God.
I’m sure you have lots of reasons why the above ideas wouldn’t work, but it might make for interesting discussion. Thanks!
TSW
TSW: I recognize that the new handbook changes aren’t sweeping by any means, and that as it stands, men still dominate in most ways.
On the other hand, I do think recognizing even small bits of progress can help one feel more at peace, hence my comment.
I like the example of Ghandi in his fight for Indian independence from British domination. He started his quest as a young man, and finally saw independence happen when he was an old man. It takes time,unfortunately for these changes to occur, particularly when they are so entrenched in our culture and ways of doing things.
But in his realm, Ghandi kept working at it while also maintaining his peace. That is the great contradiction.
There was one scene in the movie Ghandi when he was nearing the end of his life, and someone asked him about when British domination would end. He commented with a tremendous air of peace — “After WW2, independence will fall like a ripe apple”. And so it did; I felt his attitude of accepting the change he desired as a ripening phenomenon which will eventually fall from the tree as a very healthy one.
I have my own issue. It’s the dysfunctional home teaching program. An impossible goal – -100%, with stake leaders who constantly drilled into me about getting 100% when 75% of the problem was the willingness of the families to be home taught. They refused to let me count anything but gold standard visits where you meet the person in their home, when the best thing for the family is often just to leave them alone. I did my absolute best and they were constantly riding me about it. Maddening!!!!!
Then out came the CHI which loosened up the metrics a bit, allowing contacts to count. What a huge improvement!!! This has taken about 20 years since I started feeling frustrated with that program.
Well, in our Ward, I notice everyone is still harping on the gold standard. In spite of the new policy, they haven’t integrated it yet, or caught the vision. So, I mention it in priesthood meetings, and even use the new standard to contact my families and report them as home taught. I do what I can to help the redefinition take root while trying not to let everyone’s stupidity in the realm of home teaching bother me.
As far as more respect for women in the Church goes, there are a lot of places on the web that support this with podcasts and commentary. I would be on the lookout for other like-minded women and point them there to grow the consciousness in the Church of the need to elevate the status of women. Do what you can within your own circle of influence.
It does matter. As a pretty dyed in the wool priesthood leader until a couple years ago, I never questioned the whole patriarchal approach to Church governance. I just accepted it as “God’s way”. Well, after being exposed to more forward-thinking ideals on the web, I now have a much greater acceptance of the issue and look at the patriarchy as more of a cultural/historical phenomenon rather than something that is God’s way. If there was a “revelation” that women could hold the priesthood, I would not have a problem with it or even find it unusual. That was not the case before my Internet exposure.
So, the web, and these kinds of forums can do much to create a grass roots consicousness and eventual acceptance of the problem. But one needs to both work at it, while also working at doing so with an inner peace. I know it’s a challenge.
In overlooking female input, the church is really only doing itself a disservice. IMO, a woman who just echoes a male perspective doesn’t count as female input either. But we can’t save the church from itself. We can only deal with people we know and be ourselves. We all lie in the beds we make. That’s just the way life works. An enlightened woman in an unenlightened organization is not less enlightened by association. We can walk through it untouched if we know who we are. Welcome to the group and thanks for sharing your story. I think the danger I see some people fall into is that they come across a very valid, very real issue they face, and because of that or a few of those…they forget all the other beautiful things about the church. For you, it seems to be about the lack of equality in the church for men and women. I could very well see how that irks you…you should feel validated that those feelings you have are real. But you also sound like you’ve benefited from and been the beneficiary of many beautiful teachings that have helped your raise a couple great sons.
Some people will say, “the Church is true, the people aren’t”. I don’t buy it. Its a temporal institution striving to improve generation after generation through continuous revelation. It can’t be perfect if it continues to improve. It is also realistic to think it fails in some areas, even while succeeding in others.
But I would imagine you know your husband pretty well, and know he is not perfect, yet can love him and stay with him. And he’s a good guy called to be bishop…he can do good things and help other people, even though you know how imperfect he is. Right?
It can be the same with the church. Imperfections can be there…yet it can still bring you peace and help challenge you to learn to develop Christ-like attributes, by struggling through those imperfections and become better for it.
I’d recommend you read Dr. Wendy Ulrich’s lecture. Its one of my favs.
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http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Faith_Cognitive_Dissonance_and_the_Psychology_of_Religious_Experience.html ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Faith_Cognitive_Dissonance_and_the_Psychology_of_Religious_Experience.html Thanks for joining our discussions. I look forward to learning from your posts.
TSW wrote:There are no similar milestones for the YW when they leave High School. If the Bishop’s wife were actually called as a female version of Bishop, or the culture was to go to your Young Women leaders, I think it would be much better for the young girls.
Both my teenage daughters grew up feeling this way exactly. And when they needed support, they went directly to this loving YW pres who was a great source of inspiration and support for both of them.
Sometimes in church, we often put expectations and restrict ourselves by expectations thinking that callings or priesthood is required for us to access God. But my daughters didn’t find that was the case, they felt God’s love from several women who have served them in the ward. Its unfortunate to me that so much emphasis and respect is placed on some callings, when God’s work is so often done by the anonymous saints in the ward, and often most work gets done by the women.
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