My son is gay.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

Maybe the rules don’t need to change, just the way people think about each other.

I suspect that as people change the way they think about each other, the rules will inevitably change. (Inter-racial marriage being an example, in my mind)

[Anonymous]

Brigit

Well there has been quite a debate gong on since you asked for this url, but here it is, the Mormon Stories Podcast Archives:

http://mormonstories.org/ go there and along the right hand side you can see a set of key words, homosexuality among them, click on that and you will the podcasts that deal with it in some way. You can get to much the same set of podcasts on iTunes if you have that installed, just go to the podcast section and in the search type in Mormon Stories and it will come up. The itunes source has a whole series of just video interviews with some gay people that are worth watching as well.

What always impresses me is the depth of spirituality that Mormon gays seem to have. Yes if they go crazy in revolt after leaving the church they may get into some fairly serious sin but even then when they come out of that black night (which hopefully they do, sadly too many committ suicide) that spirituality is still there. They have powerful testimonies, if we could treat them like everyone else the Church would gain many fine, hard working saints.

[Anonymous]

There was a time that I thought homosexual behavior was wrong and would affect society and families in a bad way. When my son was 10 years old, in 5th grade, he came home from school one day and told me, “Well, I know how gays do it now?” I said, “What? What are you talking about? What are they teaching you at school?” He said that “Planned Parenthood’ had come into his health class and showed them how gays do it.” I was very upset and said, “Where are the ‘release slips’ schools are supposed to give parents to sign when there are sex ed classes in school?” He said he had lost his (convenietly lost, as kids don’t want to be pulled out of those classes and looked at funny by the others). So, I took the opportunity to talk to my son about this (having no clue at the time that he could have these tendencies). He was 16 before he became aware of his same-sex attractions to one of his best friends (who is straight). I asked my son if he knew what the Bible said about homosexuality? He said, ‘No,’ and I proceeded to tell him that it says that homosexuality is an abomination. We then proceeded to discuss what the word abomination was (mainly, that it was a terrible thing). I did distinquish that God did not say gays were an abomination but just gay sex. I then asked him if he knew why God would say such behavior is wrong. He said he did not know. My answer at the time was that it stopped God’s plan of creation and bringing spirit children to earth because gays could not create babies. I even said that ‘abortion’ and homosexuality were Satan’s plan to stop spirit children from coming on this earth. I mistakenly believed people choose to have those feelings at that time which meant they choose to be sinful.

Step forward, 6 years, to when we found out our son is gay. I was a wreck at the time, not understanding why our son had these feelings and wanting him to get therapy to overcome this. One day, during this time, my son said to me, “Mom, God hates gays, doesn’t he?” I said, “No, God loves gays, he just hates gay sex.” Then my son told me that ‘unless I accept homosexuality, I don’t love him.” I replied back with, “Son, I don’t expect you to love my fat thighs in order to love me, so don’t expect me to love gay sex in order to love you.” During all those years of us arguing back and forth, we were actually very respectfull. Since that time, I have come to learn that there are so many misconceptions about homosexuality and homosexuals. When my daughter found out about her brother being gay, she became concerned as to whether she could leave him alone with her two small sons anymore. I was able to talk to my son about that and he was not defensive and understood that people have this misconception that gays might also be pedophiles, especially after the Catholic priest abuse came out. The whole reason this Danish pro-gay youth allowed me to publish our letters and conversations to each other in my book, was to show those on both sides of this issue how to understand each other better in a respectful, loving way. One of the reasons I like this staylds group so much is because of the respectful way we try to discuss things and understand each other. A Danish friend and I started a yahoo group for familes with members on both sides of this issue to discuss how to handle these kind of problems in our families. Here is the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FamilyReconciliation/

Sunstone December 2008 magizine did a great job in discussing Prop. 8 and sharing thoughts from those on both sides of this issue from members. I have always liked Steven Covey’s quote “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” My Danish friends have helped me see that ‘Gay Marriage’ in their country has worked well over the years. Churches are not required to believe or say that homosexuality is right if they think it is wrong. They still have their freedom of speech and gays are allowed to have equal rights and live their lives as they want. It has not adversly affected straight marriages or families in anyway. Over the years I have come to see that most people with a same-sex attraction cannot change their feelings and does have a genetic component. For the church to ask them to live celibate lives and not even have the possiblity of dating or affection (as single straights can), plus have people look at them like they are bad perverts, is asking the impossible. This is why I support ‘Gay Marriage.” One of the happiest days of my son’s life was when I told him this and that I would love him for himself. He cried such tears of joy. ‘Acceptance is our greatest need. Rejection, our greatest fear.

Bridget

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=12053.

[Anonymous]

Bridget, I am curious. Would you mind if I asked you a question(s)? Feel free to opt out. And I apologize for my directness.

I am just wondering what made the switch for you in your mind? Do you feel that you just believed the dogma you had been told over the years? Do you now believe that this is wrong and that the scriptures and church teachings are wrong? And do you have any Spiritual conformations that you have indeed begun to understand the truth on the subject? And do you believe that had you not had a gay son that you would have come to the same determination>?

I wanted to also say that I am glad that families are coming together to find solutions. My brother is gay. It is a stagnant situation as he has forbidden us to ever discuss the subject with him. He doesn’t want us in his “business”. He just wants us to love him, not ask questions, and not disown him. I feel held hostage by the whole thing….but that is another story.

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

One of the happiest days of my son’s life was when I told him this and that I would love him for himself. He cried such tears of joy. ‘Acceptance is our greatest need. Rejection, our greatest fear.

Bridget

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=12053.

Wow! What a powerful story, Bridget. Thanks for sharing it. This transformational story is so touching, and yes, we soooo need to hear it!

In Carol Lynn Pearson’s play “Facing East,” there is a line that I love: The TBM parents say to their son’s gay partner that God doesn’t consider SSA a sin…it is only wrong if you act out on it. The guy responds “that’s like telling a flowering tree, ‘we love the way you are, but that blossoming thing you do in the spring — that’s just wrong!”

Would God really disallow one of the most powerful desires we humans have…to love and be loved?

😥

[Anonymous]

Poppyseed wrote:

I am just wondering what made the switch for you in your mind? Do you feel that you just believed the dogma you had been told over the years? Do you now believe that this is wrong and that the scriptures and church teachings are wrong?

I won’t try to answer for Bridget, but my answer would be similar to what I said about the temple script…the “teachings” were given by men, including the words in “scripture,” according to their understanding at the time. They had no idea that homosexuality is biological.

And if you try to make a comparison to other equally strong commandments…like: “A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing,” Deut. 22:5; “Rise in the presence of the aged,” Lev. 19:32; “The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses,” Deut. 14:8,..you can see how outdated many teachings are. Even in modern times, many LDS prophets said the blacks will never receive the priesthood, and all the hispanic people are Lamanites.

I could go on, but I think it’s safe to say that the church has changed key teachings, even recently, so we can’t get hung up on old teachings being unchangable.

In my very so humble opinion….

[Anonymous]

Hi Poppyseed…. I appreciate your questions. Having a gay brother who won’t even talk about it must be difficult for you and your family. First of all I want you to know it was very very hard for me to change my thinking on this. I did believe that homosexual behavior was wrong as the church taught but there were things that church leaders said about homosexuality and homosexuals that really bothered me. For example, the chapter on homosexuality in Spencer W. Kimballs book, “The Miracle of Forgiveness’ was so harsh and really insulted alot of lds gays and their families in the church. Brother Spencer even admitted to his nephew that he felt he had been too harsh on homosexuals in his book. Then Boyd K. Packer said in the Phamplet “To The One’ that homosexuality was caused by selfishness’ and that really upset me because my son was one of the most unselfish, loving young men I had ever met. So I agree with Rix that church leaders are often uneducated about this issue and have their hangups. Here is a great link written by a active lds father of a gay son to Boyd K. Packer about his feelings on this: http://www.lds-mormon.com/hardy.shtml I so agree with this dad.

My Danish doctor friend who read my book used to laugh at me and call me “The Plumbing Expert’ of the midwest. I used to tell my son, “Well that’s just not natural” and he would say to me, “Well, it feels natural to me mom.” And then I would answer back with, “Well, that’s because you are screwed up!” And then we would burst out laughing. I also believed that just because something felt natural, did not make it right. I did have a powerful spiritual experience when I was trying to figure out how to end my book. It was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life in which God told me to see my son as in the story of the blind man in the Bible. In Jesus day it was thought that you or your parents had sinned if you were Blind. So when the people asked Jesus whose fault it was that this man was born blind, he said that it was neither this mans fault or his parents but to show forth the glory of God. I personally believe that those with homosexual feelings were some of the most loving of God’s spirits who were willing to take on this trial on earth. How people treat homosexuals or anyone who is different is one of the tests of this earth life. I am left handed for example and my dad tried to push me to become right handed. He said, “It’s a right handed world and you need to get used to it or your life will be difficult.” I did become somewhat ambi-dextrous but I still eat and write with my left hand and manage life quit nicely. So, even though I wish my son could become straight and marry a girl, have kids etc, how can I tell him he cannot have a life. I have seen the misery with gays in the church.

It is hard for me to go against the church on things. I want to believe our church leaders are inspired in all things, but I have come to see they aren’t always, but have their own prejudices. I don’t recall where I read this but I remember something about Gordon Hinckley apologizing to Black people when the men got the Priesthood. He admitted that he had had prejudices against them and never thought they would get the priesthood in this life. So, even though I still don’t completely understand why some people have these feelings, my heart tells me they deserve to live a happy life of their own. Like I said before, how can it be a loving thing to ask our gay brothers and sisters to live a celibate life where they can never express feelings of phsyical affection, or date, or marry. At least straight singles are allowed that. On top of that the church tells singles to never masturbate either because it is a gross sin. LDS youth end up lying to their leaders all the time in order to not look bad. When Jesus was asked, “What is the greatest commandment, we know he said that all the laws and prophets hang upon whether they are based on the principle of love. So, I don’t need to remember a bunch of commandments but ask myself what is the loving thing to do here. Here are two other links that may help you:

http://mormonsformarriage.com/?page_id=14 and http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/masturbation_help.htm

Bridget

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bridget for all your wise words here…I LOVE reading your story!

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Bridget, for sharing your story. I think it’s interesting that so many of us with gay children have had remarkably similar experiences. I, too, used to be convinced that homosexuality was wrong. My son spent almost two years in therapy desperately trying to change. Through his bedroom door, I saw him often on his knees begging for a miracle. Unfortunately, through that same bedroom door, I also often saw him in despair — curled up in a ball with the sheets over his head. I am embarassed that it took me so long to come to grips with my son’s sexual orientation. I love him more than words can express, and I am sorry that my rigid religious rationale contributed to his pain and depression.

Thankfully, we have moved on. He knows I accept him completely as a gay man. My son is gentle, compassionate, kind, forgiving, tolerant, intelligent, and drop-dead gorgeous! In complete sincerity, I can say that he is one of the most Christ-like people I know.

How do I reconcile this major paradigm shift in my life? I acknowledge that the Church is lead by very good, faithful, spiritual, loving, HUMAN men. I respect them, but I do not worship them. And regarding biblical references, aren’t we taught that the Bible is the word of God as far as it is translated correctly? Isn’t it very likely that early translations included plenty of prejudice! My faith is entirely in my Savior, Jesus Christ. He will judge mercifully and justly. Hallelujah!

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU, Rix and Othelia. I appreciate your comments very much!!

I am so thankful that my Danish friend told me about Staylds.com. It was really an answer to prayer because I just did not know where I fit in anymore and had no place to ask serious questions. I brought my Danish friend (who read my book and it actually helped him discover that his childhood abuse caused his SSA and that he had alot of heterosexual potential) to the church 4 years ago. He showed me this link written by a gay psychologist which explains why some straight men do homosexual behavior http://straightguise.com/ . This was his situation. Since joining the church and getting through the honeymoon stage, he is now in the disilliounment stage in the church. He is so angry with some of the things in church history and prop 8 that he did not know about when he joined and feels betrayed right now. But, he realizes he upsets me too much anymore with all his negativity about the church and was kind enough to find me this place with like people who still want to be a part of the church and love much about it, but have sincere questions.

So, whoever started this group- THANK YOU and the essay on your website about how to stay lds is excellent.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I spelled your name wrong Ophelia.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Bridget.

I am going to comment here at great personal risk. It will probably sound argumentative as I don’t know how to say it in anything but directness. Please understand my intensions are peaceful. Ok? I know some may get frustrated or angry with me and may come full force with the rhetoric. PLEASE be gentle ok? I truly am seeking to understand here and I am trying to search my heart at the same time. I have NO DESIRE for a philosophical battle. Just a forum for talking out really hard to discuss feelings.

I am ok with the attitude shifts about the origins of these feelings. I don’t necessarily think they are from lustful selfish character flaws. (That doesn’t exclude the possibility in my mind either…..but that is another discussion. Being Gay doesn’t exempt anyone from selfish action no more than the hetero way.)

My problem is with the obedience question. If someone makes the commitment to obey the law of chastity and even make covenants concerning this, why do the rules change because life has presented them with a difficult challenge? They aren’t the first with difficult and heart wrenching decisions to make. If a girl was sexually abused and becomes permiscuous, she is still invited to repent and obey EVEN with her extenuating circumstances. If a person wants to join the church but his family disowns him….isn’t it Christ who said to leave family for Him?

My brother decided he was gay AFTER experiementing, which came AFTER some social acceptance he badly hungered for. He says he felt different his whole life, but not sexually different. Just socially different. Why does he get to experiment sexually? Why does he get to demand to have it both ways because life wasn’t fair….as if its fair for any of us? Obedience requires all kinds of sacrifices. I don’t see this group as special — i mean no more special than the rest of us with handicaps. Obedience happens independant of our desires and our feelings and circumstances sometimes. I thought we prized that kind of self mastery and commitment. I thought that was part of the “take up thy cross” philosophy. I sometimes think God wants obedience EVEN when the circumstances aren’t perfect. I guess I might feel better about this whole thing if sexual “needs” weren’t being put above all else? I have spent a lot of the last few years dealing with sexual addiction issues. I know this is a different animal, but the question comes up in therapy about whether or not a person can live without sex. And the truth is THEY CAN! AND ….they can do so with joy even. I mean, its not like we said to all the blacks, “here…exercize the priesthood anyway.” They had to wait in obedience.

I also find it interesting from your post that now it seems masturbation is ok too. This is a pandoras box of moral compromises. (And at least from a sexual addiction standpoint, this behavior is very tied into the whole compulsion thing. So I have concerns here too. Especially as I see the law of chastity (as it works inside AND outside of marriage)as a way to discipline our passions properly ….properly insomuch as we become master of them. Marriage isn’t a sexual free for all. Masturbation, in my opinion, is a step in the opposite direction. So is sexual indulgence no matter what the circumstances.

It seems I can go part of the way with you without any reservation. But then its like I hit this wall that I can’t overcome. But my heart can’t deny the spiritual feelings I have about the law of chastity and the proclamation on the family. My heart feels so heavy because there really isn’t a way to reconcile this AND preserve what feels so right to me about the LDS teachings about sexual expression.

I even wonder about your beautiful spiritual experience as GOd taught you a better way to see the intents of your son. I am not sure this would change God’s expectations of him in terms of obeying eternal law. Do you think this was God saying that the Law of Chastity and the Pof the Fam is man made and uninspired?? While my H was battling his addictions, God also brought me to a place of humble compassionate understanding about the battles he faced and the deep pain associated with it. But it didnt’ change the invitation to repent.

[Anonymous]

Hi Poppyseed,

Thank you for having the courage to share your honest feelings. There is nothing wrong with your logic and emotions. I do believe in chasity and being moral. I know that our passions can be used in healthy ways and unhealthy ways. Read the post I just made about how to talk to your kids about the birds and the bees. You have a powerful perspective from seeing sexual addiction problems in your family and having a gay brother reap some bad consequences.. It is understandable that you have these questions. I do not think that having problems or having been abused should be used as an excuse to hurt others. I think it is best to keep sex in a marriage situation for many reasons. Even in marriage things can be abused. You are right that this is not a simple situation to figure out. I have always wanted all 3 of my kids to wait until marriage to have sex. Our society today confuses our kids so much and none of my 3 kids waited. They all reaped bad consequences too. My daughter had a baby out of wedlock at 16 and it had many long term consequences. My gay son got a bad STD from his first sexual experience. Masturbation, which I think is a normal release, can be abused just like anything else and is better than going out and having sex with others. Yes, God did tell me to see my son as in the story of the blind man and that it is not his fault that he has these feelings. Should a blind man not be allowed a normal life? Therefore, I would like to see gay marriage so that gay relationships can be in committed relationship instead of permiscous. I do not like all this fooling around. I truly understand why you are so conflicted and I have often felt conflicted myself and still do sometimes. Because, I don’t have a strong testimony of church leaders and that they are always right, I can only go by my own personal inspiration.

Keep sharing…this is good. Bridget

[Anonymous]

Poppyseed, fwiw:

I personally would rather have the exact same standard for ALL church members (celibacy outside of marriage), but right now that simply isn’t possible within our theology for gay members. Right now, there is no official hope for someone who feels deeply inside their soul that homosexuality is part of their very core as an individual, and our current apostles have said they understand how hard it is to ask our gay brothers and sisters to live without hope.

It’s hard for straight members to understand that, but try imagining what it would be like for you to be told that ALL heterosexual impulses were evil and you had two choices: engage in homosexual activities or be totally celibate until the day you die. Oh, and, maybe, you would have a homosexual relationship in the hereafter – eternally. If that is repulsive to you, remember that is exactly what our official teachings say to gay members.

Again, I personally would like to have the same standard for all, which means that ALL single members (regardless of sexual orientation) remain celibate. Period. However, I also am totally in favor of single, heterosexual members marrying outside the church IF they deeply love someone and simply don’t see the possibility of marriage in the temple in this life (or before they are unable to bear or raise children). I believe it is MUCH better to experience becoming truly one in a marriage than to die alone – and childless. To not have descendants to honor you, either biologically or through adoption, when your sexual orientation is geared to marriage and reproduction . . . My mind and heart both scream, “NO!!”

Why do I bring that into this comment?

I believe there is an ideal – but I believe that ideal is not celibacy to the extent that we define it in practical terms right now. If there are reasonable ways to allow those who currently are remaining celibate to live a life closer to that ideal than currently is available to them . . . I believe a small compromise is better than a life of misery and pain and self-loathing, especially if that “compromise” doesn’t involve a total abandonment of the commandments against full fornication and adultery.

Honestly, I personally loathe the thought of engaging in homosexual simulation of sexual intercourse. It repulses me on a physical and emotional level. I support FULLY the LDS Church’s right to limit “acceptable” sexual relationships of that type to heterosexual marriage, especially since there are MANY ways for homosexual partners to build deeply fulfilling and intimate relationships without engaging in that particular activity. However, in order for them to do so within the LDS Church, I think we simply MUST allow them to do EVERYTHING we allow non-married heterosexual members to do.

If that was the standard, I believe many gay members could be involved actively in the Church, while others still would need to leave. Currently, I understand totally why so few gay members stay.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I personally would rather have the exact same standard for ALL church members (celibacy outside of marriage), but right now that simply isn’t possible within our theology for gay members. Right now, there is no official hope for someone who feels deeply inside their soul that homosexuality is part of their very core as an individual, and our current apostles have said they understand how hard it is to ask our gay brothers and sisters to live without hope.

It’s hard for straight members to understand that, but try imagining what it would be like for you to be told that ALL heterosexual impulses were evil and you had two choices: engage in homosexual activities or be totally celibate until the day you die. Oh, and, maybe, you would have a homosexual relationship in the hereafter – eternally. If that is repulsive to you, remember that is exactly what our official teachings say to gay members.

I am sorry you feel you need to explain this to me. I do, as hard as it may be to see, understand the heartwrenching implications.

“No official hope” ……. that is a sad statement to me. I know something about not having hope. I know something about having ‘no official help too. And I am in no place to judge anyone for leaving the church. But I am not ready to say that God has forsaken this church and all the people in it and that he won’t help us conquer where we need to conquer. — knowing also that sometimes help comes in future generations than my own.

I can understand why people leave the church over this issue. But I wish they wouldn’t. I wish they would stay and I wish we could help each other cope and grow be something better than people who are divided and angry with one another. I wish we would raise the bar with how we treat each other and how we react to unkindness too. And I wish we would unite our faith and love and devotion together to appeal to God……standing in obedience until he answers. And then being humble to follow whatever came next even if it wasn’t in line with the political expectations of the day.

That’s what I wish.

[Author]

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